SupaTunaGT
Gran Turismo => General Gran Turismo => Topic started by: Brindle on March 24, 2012, 11:09:15 AM
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I wanted to use last nights racing as examples of this. We had a great conversation about "when off the pace", I figured I would continue with a discussion on contact.
To start with, I understand that all contact by the members here is always unintentional. We all always apologize immediately, even when we don't need to (noted by the person you said sorry to).
What I'm getting at here, for me personally is, for the minor contact that doesn't put me in the grass or to the back of the pack, STAY ON THE GAS!!! We are all at the point where we are trying to hone/further our skills, which means trying a little harder and slight contact may occur.
HSR last night was aperfect example. 90% of the contact, NEVER put me out of the group I was with. They were small bumps from the back, sometimes myself and others would push wide and contact the car on the outside. All of that contact NEVER resulted in a major loss, but it did allow the other car to make the pass. TAKE THAT SPOT!!! As long as I stay with you, it's just good fun to me. You need only wait if I get demolished.
I will not speak for others, but after the chatting last night at HSR, I think many see it the same way.
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I wanted to use last nights racing as examples of this. We had a great conversation about "when off the pace", I figured I would continue with a discussion on contact.
To start with, I understand that all contact by the members here is always unintentional. We all always apologize immediately, even when we don't need to (noted by the person you said sorry to).
What I'm getting at here, for me personally is, for the minor contact that doesn't put me in the grass or to the back of the pack, STAY ON THE GAS!!! We are all at the point where we are trying to hone/further our skills, which means trying a little harder and slight contact may occur.
HSR last night was aperfect example. 90% of the contact, NEVER put me out of the group I was with. They were small bumps from the back, sometimes myself and others would push wide and contact the car on the outside. All of that contact NEVER resulted in a major loss, but it did allow the other car to make the pass. TAKE THAT SPOT!!! As long as I stay with you, it's just good fun to me. You need only wait if I get demolished.
I will not speak for others, but after the chatting last night at HSR, I think many see it the same way.
:stoopid: Unless I'm facing the wrong way, stopped, or cursing wildly, KEEP GOING.
Exactly.
Is it wrong to call someone out? Example: someone boots me into the sand and keeps going. Can I say "Hey Fried, how about slowing down and waiting for me? 'Cause if you don't, I'm gonna run you down and spectacularly end your getaway." ? This has happened to me and it's more frustrating then when someone pulls over after rubbing doors... sometimes I'm not even sure they realize it... but they must be made aware, no? Plus, it would ease the seething and keep me from returning the favor.
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Is it wrong to call someone out? Example: someone boots me into the sand and keeps going. Can I say "Hey Fried, how about slowing down and waiting for me? 'Cause if you don't, I'm gonna run you down and spectacularly end your getaway." ? This has happened to me and it's more frustrating then when someone pulls over after rubbing doors... sometimes I'm not even sure they realize it... but they must be made aware, no? Plus, it would ease the seething and keep me from returning the favor.
Not sure I get this. "someone boots me into the sand and keeps going. Can I say "Hey Fried, how about slowing down and waiting for me? 'Cause if you don't, I'm gonna run you down and spectacularly end your getaway." ?" seems to contradict this "This has happened to me and it's more frustrating then when someone pulls over after rubbing doors" or am I reading it wrong.
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What I mean is, they knock me in the sand and keep going... which ruins my race and pisses me off. What I want to know is: after they knock me in the sand and keep going, can I say something like "Hey, you just knocked me in the sand, how about slowing the hell down and giving my that spot back you thieving swine?"
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Ah, I was misreading. I would say its up to you. That has happened to me and I don''t care then either. It really only grinds my gears when points are involved, or it was a completely bonehead move. Otherwise, I'm sure they didn't even know it happened.
I have also been on the giving side of that, where I feel the other car was at fault even though they got the raw end of the deal. I don't always wait in that situation. That is why I also wouldn't expect someone else to wait either if I tried a dumb move and it forced contact between us.
Either way, I wanted to discuss the small insignificant contact. We all know and handle big incidents well enough in my opinion. I just wanted to get how I feel about the small stuff.
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Make sense.
And whoops.
(https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT5pMBLi-UbJXb9AwzPbymS4au3IDyvSHpwna8lTAW9uDrUdgdvfg)
GET BACK IN THERE!
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or it was a completely bonehead move.
:oops I is sorry!
^-^
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Make sense.
And whoops.
(https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT5pMBLi-UbJXb9AwzPbymS4au3IDyvSHpwna8lTAW9uDrUdgdvfg)
GET BACK IN THERE!
(http://i.imgur.com/LmjyBgx.gif) Mmmm, worms.
You really didn't. It's good info to know where other drivers stand. :)
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I wanted to use last nights racing as examples of this. We had a great conversation about "when off the pace", I figured I would continue with a discussion on contact.
To start with, I understand that all contact by the members here is always unintentional. We all always apologize immediately, even when we don't need to (noted by the person you said sorry to).
What I'm getting at here, for me personally is, for the minor contact that doesn't put me in the grass or to the back of the pack, STAY ON THE GAS!!! We are all at the point where we are trying to hone/further our skills, which means trying a little harder and slight contact may occur.
HSR last night was aperfect example. 90% of the contact, NEVER put me out of the group I was with. They were small bumps from the back, sometimes myself and others would push wide and contact the car on the outside. All of that contact NEVER resulted in a major loss, but it did allow the other car to make the pass. TAKE THAT SPOT!!! As long as I stay with you, it's just good fun to me. You need only wait if I get demolished.
I will not speak for others, but after the chatting last night at HSR, I think many see it the same way.
:stoopid: Unless I'm facing the wrong way, stopped, or cursing wildly, KEEP GOING.
Exactly.
Is it wrong to call someone out? Example: someone boots me into the sand and keeps going. Can I say "Hey Fried, how about slowing down and waiting for me? 'Cause if you don't, I'm gonna run you down and spectacularly end your getaway." ? This has happened to me and it's more frustrating then when someone pulls over after rubbing doors... sometimes I'm not even sure they realize it... but they must be made aware, no? Plus, it would ease the seething and keep me from returning the favor.
:stoopid:
Also, I think most know I won't usually hesitate calling someone out after a "bonehead" move. Just know it's my way of expressing displeasure with the final outcome of the incident. It's also my way to vent a bit and I'm usually over it by the time the engines cool.
Also also, I have no problem getting called out if I pull a "bonehead" move.
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Contact is a touchy concept (Yeah, I went there 8) ),Ironic that I should be posting in this thread as I am notorious for putting my self in situations for incidental and sometimes intentional contact. There are way too many forms of contact found on the race way, the hard part is telling the what is what. Telling what is intentional and uncalled for, intentional and appropriate, intentional for fun, Intentional for communication, unintentional mistake on their part, unintentional on ones own fault, just to name a few is tough at best. The only way to learn this is through experience. That said about 90 to 95% of all contact among the Tunas is unintentional.
Incidental contact, it happens, and it happens a lot at least for me it does. You have all heard exchanged between me and someone else who bumped me in a corner..."Sorry Ronin" "I'm alive, it's all good" and you know what...it is all good, it tells me people are trying and willing to admit an oops as long as it's in moderation. When you are oopsing in every corner and a couple of straights....then we have an issue.
That 5 to 10% of intentional contact that I have seen is all most all ways all in good fun and goes to improve our racing experience. I love contact when it's all in good fun. Lets say for example you are side by side on the final lap approaching the finish line and you decide it's be fun to grind the door handled of your car and the one next to you....That's awesome, Eggs and I did this the other night, we finished 0:00.003 seconds apart...as allstar would say...."Pure..Adrenaline" and this was a race for forth and fifth of six I think it was. I will admit too there have been a couple times where I know I have made some intentional contact with a little more vindictive intent for lack of a better phrase. One notable incident, one of our better drivers made a bone headed move and crowded me off the track with an uncharacteristic dive and I got no apology. I belted him for it, didn't damage his race any but it made a fuck of a lot of noise and I got my apology.
When it comes to getting belted into the fairway bunkers and the other guy just keeps going....I have no problem saying something. I don't say names because who ever did it knows who they are but yeah, I'm sure a hand full of yall have heard me say the words, "Yeah, I got fucking belted".
For those instances that have been mentioned where some one pulls over for a little door grinding thinking it was unnecessary....If we are bumping and rubbing and I am still right there, don't worry about it. Take that spot or die trying because I intend to try to keep it or die trying. What I prefer over just pulling over after contact is just run your race and if someone suddenly drops off or wrecks in close proximity to you, keep going but ask. "Was that my doing?", "Did we get together back there?", It goes a lot further than just driving off or pulling over "Just in case". If I screw up in close proximity to someone and crash on my own, I'll admit it. On the reverse, if it was someone else's fault and they ask, I'll say so generally in a fairly calm manor. If I wreck wile racing for position and I am enjoying the battle, I'm generally more than willing to let it go, contact induced or not.
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Contact is a touchy concept (Yeah, I went there 8) ),Ironic that I should be posting in this thread as I am notorious for putting my self in situations for incidental and sometimes intentional contact. There are way too many forms of contact found on the race way, the hard part is telling the what is what. Telling what is intentional and uncalled for, intentional and appropriate, intentional for fun, Intentional for communication, unintentional mistake on their part, unintentional on ones own fault, just to name a few is tough at best. The only way to learn this is through experience. That said about 90 to 95% of all contact among the Tunas is unintentional.
Incidental contact, it happens, and it happens a lot at least for me it does. You have all heard exchanged between me and someone else who bumped me in a corner..."Sorry Ronin" "I'm alive, it's all good" and you know what...it is all good, it tells me people are trying and willing to admit an oops as long as it's in moderation. When you are oopsing in every corner and a couple of straights....then we have an issue.
That 5 to 10% of intentional contact that I have seen is all most all ways all in good fun and goes to improve our racing experience. I love contact when it's all in good fun. Lets say for example you are side by side on the final lap approaching the finish line and you decide it's be fun to grind the door handled of your car and the one next to you....That's awesome, Eggs and I did this the other night, we finished 0:00.003 seconds apart...as allstar would say...."Pure..Adrenaline" and this was a race for forth and fifth of six I think it was. I will admit too there have been a couple times where I know I have made some intentional contact with a little more vindictive intent for lack of a better phrase. One notable incident, one of our better drivers made a bone headed move and crowded me off the track with an uncharacteristic dive and I got no apology. I belted him for it, didn't damage his race any but it made a fuck of a lot of noise and I got my apology.
When it comes to getting belted into the fairway bunkers and the other guy just keeps going....I have no problem saying something. I don't say names because who ever did it knows who they are but yeah, I'm sure a hand full of yall have heard me say the words, "Yeah, I got fucking belted".
For those instances that have been mentioned where some one pulls over for a little door grinding thinking it was unnecessary....If we are bumping and rubbing and I am still right there, don't worry about it. Take that spot or die trying because I intend to try to keep it or die trying. What I prefer over just pulling over after contact is just run your race and if someone suddenly drops off or wrecks in close proximity to you, keep going but ask. "Was that my doing?", "Did we get together back there?", It goes a lot further than just driving off or pulling over "Just in case". If I screw up in close proximity to someone and crash on my own, I'll admit it. On the reverse, if it was someone else's fault and they ask, I'll say so generally in a fairly calm manor. If I wreck wile racing for position and I am enjoying the battle, I'm generally more than willing to let it go, contact induced or not.
I drive like a pussy so...
Sorry Ronin, I just can't grasp this. You said "One of our better drivers made a bone head move with an UNCHARCTERISTIC dive that caused you an off". You then went on to take him out. HUH?
When did retaliation against known friends become OK? I can understand taking out an unknown douche bag that continues to ruin peoples races over and over again, but one incidence with a known racer who made an error in judgement? Your mic is always on. Couldn't you have said something rather than retaliating?
Not trying to be a dick, I just don't understand.
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I will admit too there have been a couple times where I know I have made some intentional contact with a little more vindictive intent for lack of a better phrase. One notable incident, one of our better drivers made a bone headed move and crowded me off the track with an uncharacteristic dive and I got no apology. I belted him for it, didn't damage his race any but it made a fuck of a lot of noise and I got my apology.
I drive like a pussy so...
Sorry Ronin, I just can't grasp this. You said "One of our better drivers made a bone head move with an UNCHARCTERISTIC dive that caused you an off". You then went on to take him out. HUH?
When did retaliation against known friends become OK? I can understand taking out an unknown douche bag that continues to ruin peoples races over and over again, but one incidence with a known racer who made an error in judgement? Your mic is always on. Couldn't you have said something rather than retaliating?
Not trying to be a dick, I just don't understand.
You misread.
I did not take him out, I merely made a hell of a lot of noise with the two cars. One shot, one bang and on we went.
You are right, my mic is all ways on, but the hard truth of it is, what I did, was the better course of action. Yes, even back then we where both known drivers to each other, that is why it worked. That simple bang on the quarter panel told him I was there and he screwed up and he realized it, It was a private exchange between him and I if you will. it was either that or say what was on my mind which went something along the lines of "What the fuck [insert name here], get your head out of your ass you fucking know better than that. Cut my line and push me off, what the fuck man". All that woulds have accomplished would have been verbal argument over the comm system wile everyone was trying to race.
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Since last night was used as an example I will follow suit. I had contact several times last night sometimes initiated by me sometimes by a competitor. But never once did I feel anyone owed me anything. I waited up a few times when I thought I had erred too far. But honestly unless someone is a repeat offender in a single event I tend to blow it off we run hundreds possibly thousands of races in a year only a few few hold any true meaning. And even that the meaning is very minute in the big picture of things. If someone pisses me off I don't feel a need to hold back but for the most part my temper stays in check. And on the flipside if I am out there pulling douchey moves say so someone I am a big boy I will handle it. Besides I strive to be clean if I am being douchey it is unintentional and I need to be made aware.
I am done.
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I usually avoid contact, as it often leads to wrecks. I will sometimes allow my car a little rubbing (or a little bumper-push through certain corners), but only if I'm very confident it can be done safely. I like a driver waiting after an accident, but I don't even need to regain the position, as long as we are close enough to keep racing together.
Contact in our events is generally driver error. A driver I rarely run with last night accidentally braked late (lapse of concentration?), rammed me, put me off pace, waited, and apologized. As soon as I was on track I told him to go. I didn't want him to lose any more pace than he needed to for the accident. Shit happens. While it's nice to wait, I don't think anyone wants other drivers to have their race messed up. I wanted to race with him, that's what I'm there for.
I guess that's not light contact...for light contact, like the above, I just hope that the driver shows some consideration, check up to ensure the two drivers will remain close after the contact.
Slightly off topic?: it can be very inconvenient to others when 'offending drivers' cut pace significantly in a twisty section of track, forcing people to adjust speed and line when not really neccesary. It's best to wait for a part of the road where you're very easy to navigate around at race pace.
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I don't see nothing wrong with a little bump and grind.
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Most of these comments are what make me proud to race with you guys. Thank you.
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I don't see nothing wrong with a little bump and grind.
Wizard. Finally got it. You're an R. Kelly fan. It all makes sense now.
Dave Chappelle - Piss on You (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZN565uhnGc#ws)
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Vindictive (vin-dik'tiv) adj. [<lat. vindicta, vengeance<vindicare, to avenge.] 1.Inclined to seek revenge:REVENGEFUL. 2.Meant to cause pain or harm : SPITEFUL<vindictive remarks>-vin-dic'tively adv. -vin-dic-tiveness n.
Sorry for misreading.
I will hold on to my belief that talking would have been the better thing to do. As it is now, I am done with the conversation.
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I don't see nothing wrong with a little bump and grind.
Wizard. Finally got it. You're an R. Kelly fan. It all makes sense now.
Dave Chappelle - Piss on You (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZN565uhnGc#ws)
(http://i.imgur.com/LmjyBgx.gif)
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I'm old school, I still abide by my version of the old GT5P open room philosophy that was discussed to great length on the Sony forums.
1. Contact between consenting adults is ok, just keep it to yourselves and don't assume everyone races that way.
2. Race rules encouraging contact is ok and when appropriate, encouraged.
3. All other forms of contact light/heavy or otherwise is unacceptable and should be avoided.
We all make mistakes. Especially in the limited environment of a video game. Contact will happen, we all do it.
When contact happens:
1. If you wreck the person, pull over at a safe and appropriate time and give the spot back.
2. If you don't wreck the person but take a position in a questionable way, give the spot back at the next appropriate time.
Where to stop/give back spots:
1. Way off the racing line on straights
2. Pit road
3. use run off areas that do not affect the flow of the race.
4. Do NOT stop/slow down on the racing line, while in the middle of a pack, or in turns.
5. DO get out of peoples way first.
When these options are not available
1. Apologize through available communication resources
2. Correct the situation in the next race. (not revenge)
If a person makes a mistake and does not make up for it, its best to call them out. It's possible the person may not be aware that they did something wrong. We all use different driving views and controllers and simply cannot feel or see everything that happens. If need be resolve it in private chat.
Pay Back or "taking someone out" is unacceptable. If your at that point park/leave the race, take a break and remember its a game and we are all here to have fun.
Race clean, race hard and let the duck win. ;)
and in the words of Forrest Gump: "That’s all I got to say about that" (http://i.imgur.com/LmjyBgx.gif)
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Contact is a touchy concept (Yeah, I went there 8) ),Ironic that I should be posting in this thread as I am notorious for putting my self in situations for incidental and sometimes intentional contact. There are way too many forms of contact found on the race way, the hard part is telling the what is what. Telling what is intentional and uncalled for, intentional and appropriate, intentional for fun, Intentional for communication, unintentional mistake on their part, unintentional on ones own fault, just to name a few is tough at best. The only way to learn this is through experience. That said about 90 to 95% of all contact among the Tunas is unintentional.
Incidental contact, it happens, and it happens a lot at least for me it does. You have all heard exchanged between me and someone else who bumped me in a corner..."Sorry Ronin" "I'm alive, it's all good" and you know what...it is all good, it tells me people are trying and willing to admit an oops as long as it's in moderation. When you are oopsing in every corner and a couple of straights....then we have an issue.
That 5 to 10% of intentional contact that I have seen is all most all ways all in good fun and goes to improve our racing experience. I love contact when it's all in good fun. Lets say for example you are side by side on the final lap approaching the finish line and you decide it's be fun to grind the door handled of your car and the one next to you....That's awesome, Eggs and I did this the other night, we finished 0:00.003 seconds apart...as allstar would say...."Pure..Adrenaline" and this was a race for forth and fifth of six I think it was. I will admit too there have been a couple times where I know I have made some intentional contact with a little more vindictive intent for lack of a better phrase. One notable incident, one of our better drivers made a bone headed move and crowded me off the track with an uncharacteristic dive and I got no apology. I belted him for it, didn't damage his race any but it made a fuck of a lot of noise and I got my apology.
When it comes to getting belted into the fairway bunkers and the other guy just keeps going....I have no problem saying something. I don't say names because who ever did it knows who they are but yeah, I'm sure a hand full of yall have heard me say the words, "Yeah, I got fucking belted".
For those instances that have been mentioned where some one pulls over for a little door grinding thinking it was unnecessary....If we are bumping and rubbing and I am still right there, don't worry about it. Take that spot or die trying because I intend to try to keep it or die trying. What I prefer over just pulling over after contact is just run your race and if someone suddenly drops off or wrecks in close proximity to you, keep going but ask. "Was that my doing?", "Did we get together back there?", It goes a lot further than just driving off or pulling over "Just in case". If I screw up in close proximity to someone and crash on my own, I'll admit it. On the reverse, if it was someone else's fault and they ask, I'll say so generally in a fairly calm manor. If I wreck wile racing for position and I am enjoying the battle, I'm generally more than willing to let it go, contact induced or not.
See what I mean about good info in other drivers Stepper? ;)
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Contact is a touchy concept (Yeah, I went there 8) ),Ironic that I should be posting in this thread as I am notorious for putting my self in situations for incidental and sometimes intentional contact. There are way too many forms of contact found on the race way, the hard part is telling the what is what. Telling what is intentional and uncalled for, intentional and appropriate, intentional for fun, Intentional for communication, unintentional mistake on their part, unintentional on ones own fault, just to name a few is tough at best. The only way to learn this is through experience. That said about 90 to 95% of all contact among the Tunas is unintentional.
Incidental contact, it happens, and it happens a lot at least for me it does. You have all heard exchanged between me and someone else who bumped me in a corner..."Sorry Ronin" "I'm alive, it's all good" and you know what...it is all good, it tells me people are trying and willing to admit an oops as long as it's in moderation. When you are oopsing in every corner and a couple of straights....then we have an issue.
That 5 to 10% of intentional contact that I have seen is all most all ways all in good fun and goes to improve our racing experience. I love contact when it's all in good fun. Lets say for example you are side by side on the final lap approaching the finish line and you decide it's be fun to grind the door handled of your car and the one next to you....That's awesome, Eggs and I did this the other night, we finished 0:00.003 seconds apart...as allstar would say...."Pure..Adrenaline" and this was a race for forth and fifth of six I think it was. I will admit too there have been a couple times where I know I have made some intentional contact with a little more vindictive intent for lack of a better phrase. One notable incident, one of our better drivers made a bone headed move and crowded me off the track with an uncharacteristic dive and I got no apology. I belted him for it, didn't damage his race any but it made a fuck of a lot of noise and I got my apology.
When it comes to getting belted into the fairway bunkers and the other guy just keeps going....I have no problem saying something. I don't say names because who ever did it knows who they are but yeah, I'm sure a hand full of yall have heard me say the words, "Yeah, I got fucking belted".
For those instances that have been mentioned where some one pulls over for a little door grinding thinking it was unnecessary....If we are bumping and rubbing and I am still right there, don't worry about it. Take that spot or die trying because I intend to try to keep it or die trying. What I prefer over just pulling over after contact is just run your race and if someone suddenly drops off or wrecks in close proximity to you, keep going but ask. "Was that my doing?", "Did we get together back there?", It goes a lot further than just driving off or pulling over "Just in case". If I screw up in close proximity to someone and crash on my own, I'll admit it. On the reverse, if it was someone else's fault and they ask, I'll say so generally in a fairly calm manor. If I wreck wile racing for position and I am enjoying the battle, I'm generally more than willing to let it go, contact induced or not.
See what I mean about good info in other drivers Stepper? ;)
I think you are one of the few people who can truly understand that one (http://i.imgur.com/LmjyBgx.gif)
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Vindictive (vin-dik'tiv) adj. [<lat. vindicta, vengeance<vindicare, to avenge.] 1.Inclined to seek revenge:REVENGEFUL. 2.Meant to cause pain or harm : SPITEFUL<vindictive remarks>-vin-dic'tively adv. -vin-dic-tiveness n.
Sorry for misreading.
I will hold on to my belief that talking would have been the better thing to do. As it is now, I am done with the conversation.
Sorry Boston, I know you said you are done with the conversation, but I am just trying to clarify so everyone can better understand. This thread is a prime example of why (at least for me) talking is not all ways the best course of action. When I speak, I say what is on my mind and I don't think any one will disagree that does on occasion cause more trouble than it fixes. In fact I was reprimanded for that yesterday. My on track code of conduct is difficult at best to put into words that everyone can understand. Especially with instances like this one here where my words by all outward appearance seem contradictory to what you have come to know of me by racing against me on the track. Somethings I neglected to mention pertaining to the incontinent I outlined, the driver I smacked, went on to win that one make sprint race at Autumn ring mini despite my retaliatory poke. It was also almost a year ago, this does not happen often, that is half of the reason why I remember it so clearly.
When you race at the level that all most all of us race at you don't all ways need words to express your self on the raceway. I am not afraid to cus some one up one side and down the other but we are a family here and you don't cus your brother up one side and down the other. Ya smack him upside the head, call him a dumbass and move on, at least that how my brothers and I grew up. Sometimes those non verbal exchanges relay the more appropriate message where words will only fan the flames. I'm not going to turn someone inside out for a momentary laps of judgment but on the same note I feel obligated to inform someone that they did something wrong if they have not all ready acknowledged it. I think everyone here wants to know when they have rubbed someone the wrong way, Correct? Had I opened my mouth it would have been a cus fest resulting in one or both of us getting really pissed off and leaving and possibly never sharing a track together again, but what really happened was Brindle was an experienced enough driver to understand the words that did not come out of my mouth and we continued to race with no further incident.
I do not draw my sword without good reason, in fact the only time any tuna has seen me really draw my sword was during that little training exorcize we called a demolition derby where I threw baked (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/battousaiofnphiles/GT4%20Pics/GT5%20Demolition%20Derby/EifelKart_27.jpg) at the pack and took out everyone (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/battousaiofnphiles/GT4%20Pics/GT5%20Demolition%20Derby/EifelKart_24.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/LmjyBgx.gif)
I believe that rubbing is a part of racing, I also have come to the conclusion that over concentration on avoiding contact is holding some of us back, This threads existence leads me to believe I am not alone. Forgive me if I am incorrect in this assumption, but the point of this thread is to discuss the point of raceway contact. So we can see exactly where each and everyone draws the line between racing incident, poor judgement and pure malicious intent so we can make better decisions on when contact is excusable vs. when stopping and giving the spot back is in order. Malicious intent is not an issue here so I simply explained my thoughts on racing incidents and poor judgments with some examples and touched base on malicious intent just to be through. Now that I have said more than I prolly should have I'm going to let this go and hope I have not made the confusion even worse.
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I do not draw my sword without good reason, in fact the only time any tuna has seen me really draw my sword was during that little training exorcize we called a demolition derby where I threw baked (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/battousaiofnphiles/GT4%20Pics/GT5%20Demolition%20Derby/EifelKart_27.jpg) at the pack and took out everyone (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/battousaiofnphiles/GT4%20Pics/GT5%20Demolition%20Derby/EifelKart_24.jpg) (http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/james_mikel/STGT%20forum/lol1.gif)
:huh Oh yeah. I remember that night. {swims sheepishly away... then comes back.}
OUCH! You killed my iddy biddy car. :laugh
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I do not draw my sword without good reason, in fact the only time any tuna has seen me really draw my sword was during that little training exorcize we called a demolition derby where I threw baked (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/battousaiofnphiles/GT4%20Pics/GT5%20Demolition%20Derby/EifelKart_27.jpg) at the pack and took out everyone (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/battousaiofnphiles/GT4%20Pics/GT5%20Demolition%20Derby/EifelKart_24.jpg) (http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/james_mikel/STGT%20forum/lol1.gif)
(http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/james_mikel/STGT%20forum/icon_beuj-1.gif) Oh yeah. I remember that night. {swims sheepishly away... then comes back.}
OUCH! You killed my iddy biddy car. :laugh
Yeah, that was good fun, we'll have to do that again some time.
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I would say that 80% of the contact I make with other drivers is light contact through slow turns that has no effect on either of us. Another 10% is usually when I'm going through a turn with another driver (me on the inside) and I understeer into his line. Again light contact but due to the nature of the turns it can sometimes cause the other driver to be pushed off course :(
That other 10% is when I'm going OMFGWTF and lose control of the car and inadvertently take someone out.
I always try to pay attention to what effect my bump had on the other car and apologize every time even if there's no negative outcome. Heck sometimes it's not my fault but by speaking up I intend to let the other driver know I'm not trying to be too aggressive.
Granted, I'm human so occasionally I might forget to apologize. It's usually in an instance where I'm trying to regain car control or am unaware I hit someone (if I'm making contact with multiple cars in a spin out). It's not my intention to not say something. I always intend to! :'(
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Something else to consider regarding contact is "did the other person even feel it" or "do they realise there was contact". I personally have had a couple (albeit few and far between) of incidents when I had no feeling in the controller or visual cue that I had made contact with someone but the other person definitely did.
I had a bump like that at La Sarthe once at a Tuna event (I think it was Ronin, but not certain), we both pulled out to overtake in the draft but I was coming up faster from a ways back. I swerved and didn't feel / see any contact but they did and felt it hard, when I checked my replay there was no actual contact to see but the other car shot off like a sneezed lozenge (or a car that took an almighty draft bump) so I think my connection had a tiny lag spike causing the game to not register my extra actions.
I usually try to acknowledge any contact I make, even if it's just "oops sorry for the tap" kind of thing, but that time I didn't because I didn't think there was any. We got it figured out though no problems, but it may be something worth considering that the other person may not have even known there was contact as it might be caused by a brief lag fart.
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... the other car shot off like a sneezed lozenge...
(http://i.imgur.com/LmjyBgx.gif)
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Gesundheit! :bless
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I feel like such a cough drop :(
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Something else to consider regarding contact is "did the other person even feel it" or "do they realise there was contact". I personally have had a couple (albeit few and far between) of incidents when I had no feeling in the controller or visual cue that I had made contact with someone but the other person definitely did.
I had a bump like that at La Sarthe once at a Tuna event (I think it was Ronin, but not certain), we both pulled out to overtake in the draft but I was coming up faster from a ways back. I swerved and didn't feel / see any contact but they did and felt it hard, when I checked my replay there was no actual contact to see but the other car shot off like a sneezed lozenge (or a car that took an almighty draft bump) so I think my connection had a tiny lag spike causing the game to not register my extra actions.
I usually try to acknowledge any contact I make, even if it's just "oops sorry for the tap" kind of thing, but that time I didn't because I didn't think there was any. We got it figured out though no problems, but it may be something worth considering that the other person may not have even known there was contact as it might be caused by a brief lag fart.
This is always a possibility and something that I'm always wary of as it's happened to me on more than one occasion. This is a short video from a race a long time ago where this exact scenario you describe happened.
VID00622.MP4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzggIjmhULs#ws)
During the actual race, when things were going fast, I just thought he missed his braking point. I got called out and felt dumb because I didn't remember any contact with anyone. Then I watched the replay I saw the car "jump" like I rear ended him. Well, on his side of things, I did rear end him. I just didn't know it. On top of appearing to be about 20 feet behind him, there was no "bonk" and only that small visual cue that I didn't catch during live action.
FUCK lag. :)
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Great video Wiz, thanks! That visual perfectly depicts the lag-induced sneezed lozenge I was talking about :).
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I had an incident with Allstar just like that day before yesterday, Difference was I could see it plain as day. I could see his car begin to decelerate then with the brake lights on it accelerated back up to cruising speed (at the decel point of Mulsanne straight). I heard no impact. I was positive I lagged, Allstar was positive he lagged and the two of us coasted around that corner sequence all the way through the Mulsanne corner at about 30 trying to decide who belonged where.
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Stupid lag is stupid.
I remember that incident with the Porches and being a bit upset at the time. I know Wiz is not a dirty driver, so when he drove off as if nothing happened, I assumed it was lag. I was still upset, but it wasn't Wiz's fault. A brief discussion after the incident smoothed things out and all was good again.
Lag is something we all have to deal with and understand that it happens. A lot. Having said that, I have noticed some attribute their bad driving to lag and that I have a problem with.
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If I get hit and nobody stops I will give everyone the benefit of any doubt, pick up the pieces, and move on. I know any true Tuna wouldn't hit and run.
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I encourage a little contact, unless it's at DRC and then I don't want to be touched. But I'm kinda weird that way.
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Contact is a touchy concept (Yeah, I went there 8) ),Ironic that I should be posting in this thread as I am notorious for putting my self in situations for incidental and sometimes intentional contact. There are way too many forms of contact found on the race way, the hard part is telling the what is what. Telling what is intentional and uncalled for, intentional and appropriate, intentional for fun, Intentional for communication, unintentional mistake on their part, unintentional on ones own fault, just to name a few is tough at best. The only way to learn this is through experience. That said about 90 to 95% of all contact among the Tunas is unintentional.
Incidental contact, it happens, and it happens a lot at least for me it does. You have all heard exchanged between me and someone else who bumped me in a corner..."Sorry Ronin" "I'm alive, it's all good" and you know what...it is all good, it tells me people are trying and willing to admit an oops as long as it's in moderation. When you are oopsing in every corner and a couple of straights....then we have an issue.
That 5 to 10% of intentional contact that I have seen is all most all ways all in good fun and goes to improve our racing experience. I love contact when it's all in good fun. Lets say for example you are side by side on the final lap approaching the finish line and you decide it's be fun to grind the door handled of your car and the one next to you....That's awesome, Eggs and I did this the other night, we finished 0:00.003 seconds apart...as allstar would say...."Pure..Adrenaline" and this was a race for forth and fifth of six I think it was. I will admit too there have been a couple times where I know I have made some intentional contact with a little more vindictive intent for lack of a better phrase. One notable incident, one of our better drivers made a bone headed move and crowded me off the track with an uncharacteristic dive and I got no apology. I belted him for it, didn't damage his race any but it made a fuck of a lot of noise and I got my apology.
When it comes to getting belted into the fairway bunkers and the other guy just keeps going....I have no problem saying something. I don't say names because who ever did it knows who they are but yeah, I'm sure a hand full of yall have heard me say the words, "Yeah, I got fucking belted".
For those instances that have been mentioned where some one pulls over for a little door grinding thinking it was unnecessary....If we are bumping and rubbing and I am still right there, don't worry about it. Take that spot or die trying because I intend to try to keep it or die trying. What I prefer over just pulling over after contact is just run your race and if someone suddenly drops off or wrecks in close proximity to you, keep going but ask. "Was that my doing?", "Did we get together back there?", It goes a lot further than just driving off or pulling over "Just in case". If I screw up in close proximity to someone and crash on my own, I'll admit it. On the reverse, if it was someone else's fault and they ask, I'll say so generally in a fairly calm manor. If I wreck wile racing for position and I am enjoying the battle, I'm generally more than willing to let it go, contact induced or not.
See what I mean about good info in other drivers Stepper? ;)
I think you are one of the few people who can truly understand that one (http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/james_mikel/STGT%20forum/lol1.gif)
Please don't ever reference me to such an act! I will NEVER purposely wreck my fellow Tuna, or any other friend of mine. Hell, I don't even bother with going after assholes anymore. I really don't get that comment Ronin. :-\
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Sorry Boston, I know you said you are done with the conversation, but I am just trying to clarify so everyone can better understand. This thread is a prime example of why (at least for me) talking is not all ways the best course of action. When I speak, I say what is on my mind and I don't think any one will disagree that does on occasion cause more trouble than it fixes. In fact I was reprimanded for that yesterday. My on track code of conduct is difficult at best to put into words that everyone can understand. Especially with instances like this one here where my words by all outward appearance seem contradictory to what you have come to know of me by racing against me on the track. Somethings I neglected to mention pertaining to the incontinent I outlined, the driver I smacked, went on to win that one make sprint race at Autumn ring mini despite my retaliatory poke. It was also almost a year ago, this does not happen often, that is half of the reason why I remember it so clearly.
When you race at the level that all most all of us race at you don't all ways need words to express your self on the raceway. I am not afraid to cus some one up one side and down the other but we are a family here and you don't cus your brother up one side and down the other. Ya smack him upside the head, call him a dumbass and move on, at least that how my brothers and I grew up. Sometimes those non verbal exchanges relay the more appropriate message where words will only fan the flames. I'm not going to turn someone inside out for a momentary laps of judgment but on the same note I feel obligated to inform someone that they did something wrong if they have not all ready acknowledged it. I think everyone here wants to know when they have rubbed someone the wrong way, Correct? Had I opened my mouth it would have been a cus fest resulting in one or both of us getting really pissed off and leaving and possibly never sharing a track together again, but what really happened was Brindle was an experienced enough driver to understand the words that did not come out of my mouth and we continued to race with no further incident.
I do not draw my sword without good reason, in fact the only time any tuna has seen me really draw my sword was during that little training exorcize we called a demolition derby where I threw baked (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/battousaiofnphiles/GT4%20Pics/GT5%20Demolition%20Derby/EifelKart_27.jpg) at the pack and took out everyone (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/battousaiofnphiles/GT4%20Pics/GT5%20Demolition%20Derby/EifelKart_24.jpg) (http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/james_mikel/STGT%20forum/lol1.gif)
I believe that rubbing is a part of racing, I also have come to the conclusion that over concentration on avoiding contact is holding some of us back, This threads existence leads me to believe I am not alone. Forgive me if I am incorrect in this assumption, but the point of this thread is to discuss the point of raceway contact. So we can see exactly where each and everyone draws the line between racing incident, poor judgement and pure malicious intent so we can make better decisions on when contact is excusable vs. when stopping and giving the spot back is in order. Malicious intent is not an issue here so I simply explained my thoughts on racing incidents and poor judgments with some examples and touched base on malicious intent just to be through. Now that I have said more than I prolly should have I'm going to let this go and hope I have not made the confusion even worse.
This doesn't work in racing. It has no place there period.
Um, most people can control themselves and discuss a problem like adults. (no cussing needed)
Nope, the intent was to discuss if light contact is a problem with other drivers.
I made this thread to talk about when we slightly over drive the car, specifically in a corner. There may be a light tap to the rear bumper, or a slight nudge in your quarter panel, or maybe you were run a tad wide (other driver pushed wide as well). ALL these types of contact never upset the car much, if at all. IF, by that you make a pass, KEEP IT!!!!!
That's my feelings. We already know what to do about bigger mistakes. That does not need further discussing. "Rubbing is racing" has become more prevalent lately and I like it. Within reason of course. :)
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Something else to consider regarding contact is "did the other person even feel it" or "do they realise there was contact". I personally have had a couple (albeit few and far between) of incidents when I had no feeling in the controller or visual cue that I had made contact with someone but the other person definitely did.
I had a bump like that at La Sarthe once at a Tuna event (I think it was Ronin, but not certain), we both pulled out to overtake in the draft but I was coming up faster from a ways back. I swerved and didn't feel / see any contact but they did and felt it hard, when I checked my replay there was no actual contact to see but the other car shot off like a sneezed lozenge (or a car that took an almighty draft bump) so I think my connection had a tiny lag spike causing the game to not register my extra actions.
I usually try to acknowledge any contact I make, even if it's just "oops sorry for the tap" kind of thing, but that time I didn't because I didn't think there was any. We got it figured out though no problems, but it may be something worth considering that the other person may not have even known there was contact as it might be caused by a brief lag fart.
This is always a possibility and something that I'm always wary of as it's happened to me on more than one occasion. This is a short video from a race a long time ago where this exact scenario you describe happened.
VID00622.MP4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzggIjmhULs#ws)
During the actual race, when things were going fast, I just thought he missed his braking point. I got called out and felt dumb because I didn't remember any contact with anyone. Then I watched the replay I saw the car "jump" like I rear ended him. Well, on his side of things, I did rear end him. I just didn't know it. On top of appearing to be about 20 feet behind him, there was no "bonk" and only that small visual cue that I didn't catch during live action.
FUCK lag. :)
This is something completely out of our control. If others can't understand things like that can happen and deal with it, then...
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Stupid lag is stupid.
I remember that incident with the Porches and being a bit upset at the time. I know Wiz is not a dirty driver, so when he drove off as if nothing happened, I assumed it was lag. I was still upset, but it wasn't Wiz's fault. A brief discussion after the incident smoothed things out and all was good again.
Lag is something we all have to deal with and understand that it happens. A lot. Having said that, I have noticed some attribute their bad driving to lag and that I have a problem with.
:stoopid:
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Contact is a touchy concept (Yeah, I went there 8) ),Ironic that I should be posting in this thread as I am notorious for putting my self in situations for incidental and sometimes intentional contact. There are way too many forms of contact found on the race way, the hard part is telling the what is what. Telling what is intentional and uncalled for, intentional and appropriate, intentional for fun, Intentional for communication, unintentional mistake on their part, unintentional on ones own fault, just to name a few is tough at best. The only way to learn this is through experience. That said about 90 to 95% of all contact among the Tunas is unintentional.
Incidental contact, it happens, and it happens a lot at least for me it does. You have all heard exchanged between me and someone else who bumped me in a corner..."Sorry Ronin" "I'm alive, it's all good" and you know what...it is all good, it tells me people are trying and willing to admit an oops as long as it's in moderation. When you are oopsing in every corner and a couple of straights....then we have an issue.
That 5 to 10% of intentional contact that I have seen is all most all ways all in good fun and goes to improve our racing experience. I love contact when it's all in good fun. Lets say for example you are side by side on the final lap approaching the finish line and you decide it's be fun to grind the door handled of your car and the one next to you....That's awesome, Eggs and I did this the other night, we finished 0:00.003 seconds apart...as allstar would say...."Pure..Adrenaline" and this was a race for forth and fifth of six I think it was. I will admit too there have been a couple times where I know I have made some intentional contact with a little more vindictive intent for lack of a better phrase. One notable incident, one of our better drivers made a bone headed move and crowded me off the track with an uncharacteristic dive and I got no apology. I belted him for it, didn't damage his race any but it made a fuck of a lot of noise and I got my apology.
When it comes to getting belted into the fairway bunkers and the other guy just keeps going....I have no problem saying something. I don't say names because who ever did it knows who they are but yeah, I'm sure a hand full of yall have heard me say the words, "Yeah, I got fucking belted".
For those instances that have been mentioned where some one pulls over for a little door grinding thinking it was unnecessary....If we are bumping and rubbing and I am still right there, don't worry about it. Take that spot or die trying because I intend to try to keep it or die trying. What I prefer over just pulling over after contact is just run your race and if someone suddenly drops off or wrecks in close proximity to you, keep going but ask. "Was that my doing?", "Did we get together back there?", It goes a lot further than just driving off or pulling over "Just in case". If I screw up in close proximity to someone and crash on my own, I'll admit it. On the reverse, if it was someone else's fault and they ask, I'll say so generally in a fairly calm manor. If I wreck wile racing for position and I am enjoying the battle, I'm generally more than willing to let it go, contact induced or not.
See what I mean about good info in other drivers Stepper? ;)
I think you are one of the few people who can truly understand that one (http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/james_mikel/STGT%20forum/lol1.gif)
Please don't ever reference me to such an act! I will NEVER purposely wreck my fellow Tuna, or any other friend of mine. Hell, I don't even bother with going after assholes anymore. I really don't get that comment Ronin. :-\
I referenced you because the incident outlined in red was between you and I, you cut my line forcing me off the track, it was you I hit. When you quoted the post and highlighted the incident I thought you actually remembered it.
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I get annoyed when I go on the inside line, 2 wide, and I end up slowly drifting toward the outside line..."OH SHIT OH SHIT OH SHIT"...hopefully the resulting contact is harmless and I don't send someone into the grass/wall. When that kind of light contact happens, an apology is nice - and often heard, and I like to see no one getting any 'competitive advantage' because of it. The cool thing is that lots of guys in that situation let it slide pretty quickly. Because there was no harm, they tell you to step on it. I'm like this. Unless someone really puts me off pace, I don't really want the position back, and I don't want them to hurt their race because of 'inconsequential' contact.
Slightly off topic...In the GT300 series, on the last lap of Cape Ring Periphery, Eggs got a lag-bump from me, apparently. It was a bit like that RUF video. It gave me a 2 second lead, maybe damaged him, gave me the win. Lag sucks.
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Contact is a touchy concept (Yeah, I went there 8) ),Ironic that I should be posting in this thread as I am notorious for putting my self in situations for incidental and sometimes intentional contact. There are way too many forms of contact found on the race way, the hard part is telling the what is what. Telling what is intentional and uncalled for, intentional and appropriate, intentional for fun, Intentional for communication, unintentional mistake on their part, unintentional on ones own fault, just to name a few is tough at best. The only way to learn this is through experience. That said about 90 to 95% of all contact among the Tunas is unintentional.
Incidental contact, it happens, and it happens a lot at least for me it does. You have all heard exchanged between me and someone else who bumped me in a corner..."Sorry Ronin" "I'm alive, it's all good" and you know what...it is all good, it tells me people are trying and willing to admit an oops as long as it's in moderation. When you are oopsing in every corner and a couple of straights....then we have an issue.
That 5 to 10% of intentional contact that I have seen is all most all ways all in good fun and goes to improve our racing experience. I love contact when it's all in good fun. Lets say for example you are side by side on the final lap approaching the finish line and you decide it's be fun to grind the door handled of your car and the one next to you....That's awesome, Eggs and I did this the other night, we finished 0:00.003 seconds apart...as allstar would say...."Pure..Adrenaline" and this was a race for forth and fifth of six I think it was. I will admit too there have been a couple times where I know I have made some intentional contact with a little more vindictive intent for lack of a better phrase. One notable incident, one of our better drivers made a bone headed move and crowded me off the track with an uncharacteristic dive and I got no apology. I belted him for it, didn't damage his race any but it made a fuck of a lot of noise and I got my apology.
When it comes to getting belted into the fairway bunkers and the other guy just keeps going....I have no problem saying something. I don't say names because who ever did it knows who they are but yeah, I'm sure a hand full of yall have heard me say the words, "Yeah, I got fucking belted".
For those instances that have been mentioned where some one pulls over for a little door grinding thinking it was unnecessary....If we are bumping and rubbing and I am still right there, don't worry about it. Take that spot or die trying because I intend to try to keep it or die trying. What I prefer over just pulling over after contact is just run your race and if someone suddenly drops off or wrecks in close proximity to you, keep going but ask. "Was that my doing?", "Did we get together back there?", It goes a lot further than just driving off or pulling over "Just in case". If I screw up in close proximity to someone and crash on my own, I'll admit it. On the reverse, if it was someone else's fault and they ask, I'll say so generally in a fairly calm manor. If I wreck wile racing for position and I am enjoying the battle, I'm generally more than willing to let it go, contact induced or not.
See what I mean about good info in other drivers Stepper? ;)
I think you are one of the few people who can truly understand that one (http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/james_mikel/STGT%20forum/lol1.gif)
Please don't ever reference me to such an act! I will NEVER purposely wreck (REK) my fellow Tuna, or any other friend of mine. Hell, I don't even bother with going after assholes anymore. I really don't get that comment Ronin. :-\
Fixed
P.S. I hate letting sleeping dogs lie :D They need a little kick every now and again ;) Anyone else have any problems lately? Anyone? :laugh
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