SupaTunaGT
Gran Turismo => General Gran Turismo => Topic started by: RickS95 on December 06, 2013, 11:43:53 PM
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I'm going to go back to something Spec told me either late last night or early this morning...this isn't GT6 but GTWhatShouldHaveBeen5. This is really what we should have had five years ago.
The graphics are cleaner, the interface is faster, the game is much more fun. But they're still not quite there.
I've been playing on and off for the last 14 hours. In the beginning, I hought they had the physics nailed. The cars were looser, the steering was heavier and the cars showed an inclination to move under braking. Then I drove one of the free cars from GameStop, the Viper.
That's when I realized the game still misses the mark. For the first several hours, I drove shitty cars with high tendencies to understeer with a large push entering turns. Then I broke out the Viper. I don't have a Viper, but I've got a Corvette ZO6. Both the Viper and the Corvette are very close in style. The Viper is a bit less refined, but makes up for it with a monster under the hood. The Corvette is a bit smoother, but lacks a V-10. However, both cars handle quite similarly. The front tires dig into the pavement, showing literally no understeer, and with even the slightest encouragement from the throttle, the back end is more than eager to chase the front end.
Not so much in this game. In one of the National B races, I was finally able to break out a big-engined, rear wheel drive car. Sadly, it handled just like the shitty cars I'd been driving all day. It had a huge push into the corners and to get the car to spin, you really had to try. In real life, that's just not how those cars work.
I'm going to buy the 2000 Corvette Z06. Not sure why since there wasn't a 2000 Z06 (it didn't come out until 2001), but I'm going to run the same races again in the morning and see if what I've been told is just not true (that the two cars are vitually identical in performance). My car doesn't understeer, it just doesn't. Not only that, the front tires don't even make much noise. With even a slight bit of throttle, I can easily do a 180 degree spin on hot pavement and the car stops just as well as it goes. The game doesn't show this.
Overall, what I've seen is a marked improvement. But they still miss the mark.
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Interesting, Rick.
Now that they raised the volume of tire squeal to "overwhelming", they make it sound as if there is some sort of tire chirping going on. At first I thought it was ABS, but it happens when going around curves, not when the brakes are being used. It makes me think that they are using some sort of auto-drivers' aid, but I turned that one off.
Anyone understand what they are doing?
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Anyone understand what they are doing?
Making my ears bleed from the tire noise. Right now, that's my main complaint. It is just terrible.
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Now that they raised the volume of tire squeal to "overwhelming"
I'm so glad I'm not the only one to notice this. Perhaps it's because I use headphones when I play (Turtle Beach PX21) but it completely drowns out all other sound. I can barely hear my engine when my tires are squealing.
I don't like it and I hope they turn it down a bit. Or at least give us the option to adjust the volume of it.
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I do agree also that the tire noise seems unnecessary / excessively loud right now (I've only been running on Comfort Softs so far, but I assume it's the same for all tire grades?) though I have noticed there seems to be some rather interesting sound effects, layering or something going on when you progressively apply more force to the tires.
They start off just sort of minor chirping and chittering if you go through corners at a sensibly slow speed but the more you turn the wheel or the more speed you try to carry through the corner the noise actually seems to change somewhat, not just the usual loud / louder / loudest kind of thing either. I may be wrong but I swear I actually hear a few different types of tire chirp / squeal noise depending on how much you stress them.
Assuming it's not just my ears being broken and wrong, I actually kind of like what I can hear though obviously not counting excessive loundness lol. And speaking of cool noises did anyone else notice the rocks hitting the floor pan noise when you run off track? I only really noticed it in the Fit RS at Willow Spring when I took the last corner a bit wide but that was anothing cool little sound to hear.
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I've heard a lot of complaints about that 'tire noise' and I can tell you from driving many cars on many tracks, with various different compounds of tires, that, in fact that sound is accurate; unfortunately noise level of it is overdone a tad too much.
What you are hearing is the tire losing grip and actually skidding or bouncing very rapidly over the pavement. Notice when you hear that noise next time if you open the wheel up or breath off the throttle the noise will reduce because the tire is skipping along the pavement less.
It's funny because they finally nailed a sound, but they over did it. (http://i.imgur.com/LmjyBgx.gif)
Rick, I also share your same feeling about the physics; i think they dialed in too much under-steer this round; but I've also noticed many times that I can't turn that darn skid force recovery off, and I haven't tried the online physics. I do hope that this time the physics engines are the same in offline and online.
Cheers!
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I do agree also that the tire noise seems unnecessary / excessively loud right now (I've only been running on Comfort Softs so far, but I assume it's the same for all tire grades?) though I have noticed there seems to be some rather interesting sound effects, layering or something going on when you progressively apply more force to the tires.
They start off just sort of minor chirping and chittering if you go through corners at a sensibly slow speed but the more you turn the wheel or the more speed you try to carry through the corner the noise actually seems to change somewhat, not just the usual loud / louder / loudest kind of thing either. I may be wrong but I swear I actually hear a few different types of tire chirp / squeal noise depending on how much you stress them.
Assuming it's not just my ears being broken and wrong, I actually kind of like what I can hear though obviously not counting excessive loundness lol. And speaking of cool noises did anyone else notice the rocks hitting the floor pan noise when you run off track? I only really noticed it in the Fit RS at Willow Spring when I took the last corner a bit wide but that was anothing cool little sound to hear.
Totally agree. I'm not using headphones right now. But I came to the same conclusion. They are trying to make up for the lack of seat of the pants feel of the car underneath you with some pretty nice variable tire squeal. It basically lets me know how close to the edge I'm pushing the tire. Very nice.
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The Corvette is a bit smoother, but lacks a V-10. However, both cars handle quite similarly. The front tires dig into the pavement, showing literally no understeer, and with even the slightest encouragement from the throttle, the back end is more than eager to chase the front end.
Not so much in this game. In one of the National B races, I was finally able to break out a big-engined, rear wheel drive car. Sadly, it handled just like the shitty cars I'd been driving all day. It had a huge push into the corners and to get the car to spin, you really had to try. In real life, that's just not how those cars work.
I found that the Miata drove fantastic, very similar to real life. I look forward to your comparison to the real Z06.
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I've heard a lot of complaints about that 'tire noise' and I can tell you from driving many cars on many tracks, with various different compounds of tires, that, in fact that sound is accurate; unfortunately noise level of it is overdone a tad too much.
What you are hearing is the tire losing grip and actually skidding or bouncing very rapidly over the pavement. Notice when you hear that noise next time if you open the wheel up or breath off the throttle the noise will reduce because the tire is skipping along the pavement less.
It's funny because they finally nailed a sound, but they over did it. (http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/james_mikel/STGT%20forum/lol1.gif)
Rick, I also share your same feeling about the physics; i think they dialed in too much under-steer this round; but I've also noticed many times that I can't turn that darn skid force recovery off, and I haven't tried the online physics. I do hope that this time the physics engines are the same in offline and online.
Cheers!
Again, totally agree on the tire squeal. Regarding the understeer ... all cars come from the factory with some understeer. It's done that way for safety reasons. I don't own a Z06, so I can't comment on that. However, I am finding the opposite problem in the game ... too much oversteer. I'm actually dialing more understeer into my cars to get around the track quickly. But that's for two reasons. First, I haven't plugged in my wheel yet. And on the controller, I tend to oversteer a bit. And second, I added the customizable suspension early on, lowered the cars and zeroed out the rear toe. This really helped the cars rotate a lot. As the hp in those cars climbed by adding parts, the backend got more and more loose. So I had to add an LSD and dial up some understeer. All of this is exactly as you would want it to behave, imho.
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To clarify my stance a little, I really like the new tire sounds. Massive improvement compared to GT5. Probably some of the best tire sounds I've heard and I too like that the sound changes the harder you drive them.
My complaint is the volume of them. They're just too damn loud in my opinion. Knock the overall volume down by 20% or so and they'd be excellent.
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To clarify my stance a little, I really like the new tire sounds. Massive improvement compared to GT5. Probably some of the best tire sounds I've heard and I too like that the sound changes the harder you drive them.
My complaint is the volume of them. They're just too damn loud in my opinion. Knock the overall volume down by 20% or so and they'd be excellent.
I agree with this in full, it's like running hard with the windows down. This level would work on open top cars but closed cockpit it needs to come down some.
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To clarify my stance a little, I really like the new tire sounds. Massive improvement compared to GT5. Probably some of the best tire sounds I've heard and I too like that the sound changes the harder you drive them.
My complaint is the volume of them. They're just too damn loud in my opinion. Knock the overall volume down by 20% or so and they'd be excellent.
I agree 100%, and that brings up one of the features I love about iRacing which is being able to adjust the different areas of sound. You can turn up and down the tires, wind, crash, and engine noise. Using iRacing for the past few years and hopping back into a console game reminds me about how customizable a pc sim is vs. a console sim. I don't have a lot of time to learn about some of the bigger items to customize in iRacing, but I've done enough that GT now feels a bit restrictive.
Still, I'm very impressed so far. My only complaint is some of the shadowing in replays, it looks so bad and sometimes even skips around. With the limitations of the PS3 hardware why not just leave the shadows out to gain a better frame rate then plug them in look so bad? I could take them or leave them, but with how bad they look this round, I'd leave them.
Yes, I'm a fanboy and yes I'm looking forward to 7:00 - 7:30 tonight when my son goes to bed to hop on the rig again. ^-^
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I like the sound it makes when you drop a wheel into the dirt/grass. I've been purposely running with wheels off the racing surface because I like the noise it makes (http://i.imgur.com/LmjyBgx.gif)
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I like the sound it makes when you drop a wheel into the dirt/grass. I've been purposely running with wheels off the racing surface because I like the noise it makes (http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss272/james_mikel/STGT%20forum/lol1.gif)
:stoopid:
The gravel rumbling around in the wheel wells is a nice touch.
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After driving the Aston Martin One-77 in the Morning Wood speed challenge, I'm growing to dislike the physics as they apply to anything but front-wheel drive cars. This car simply refuses to turn or slow. That said, I'm finally finding a car with a nice dose of snap oversteer.
I've yet to race online so maybe the offline physics are different than online. And, the tire noise is starting to annoy me.
Still the interface seems a bit quicker across the board (except for loading tracks where sometimes I have to look at the console to see if it's locked up) and the tracks are much improved (except that damned Cape Ring layout is still present). I do miss the Top Gear track and the speed test and my son is pissed that the oil change guy has been fired.
Also, what happened to Bob? Are all the Bobs unemployed now?
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If i recall correctly... B Spec was to return in a later update.
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I haven't played GT6 yet, but this issue with tire squeal already sounds like it could be annoying.
FYI for some guys that haven't (IRL) been able to experience sliding a car around on high performance tires: high performance tires don't squeal until you've really, REALLY made a mistake. So if in the game Sport or Race tires are squealing at the slightest bit of under or over steer that's disappointing, because that's not realistic at all.
(before someone comments on my BRZ's tires squealing in the Youtube video I posted - those tires aren't high performance ;D )
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That's interesting you mention that Dawson, I've noticed that in GT6 the Comfort tires definitely have the most pronounced (read obnoxiously loud) squealing but Sports and Racing are both less voluminous and my more bearable, at least to me. I generally like how much the Comfort tires do squeal it's just too loud compared to other sound effects, most interestingly though the actual sound between the 3 basic grades has a different "texture" to it too so burning rubber from a standing start sounds different if you're using Comfort, Sports of Racing tyres which I do think is really cool.
Rick I sort of agree in part particularly about the Aston Martin One-77 at Morning Wood, the damn car is like driving a greased pig and was an absolute nightmare to get around the track. Ironically for me I really enjoyed driving all the older cars at Goodwood, it didn't help that Skid Recovery Farce is stuck ON so gave a false impression generally, but I had a lot of fun driving everything except the few modern ones they threw in.
I finally got around to picking up my C4 ZR1 last night too, compared to GT5 I think it actually handled / performed (and even sounded!) quite a bit better though it did have a fair amount of understeer and was quite the elephant under braking, though it did at least kick the back end out if pushed (stock). I did a stage 1 weight reduction, windows and carbon hood that took it from 1600kg stock down to about 1420kg or so and that helped immensely with understeer / braking.
I have also decided that I still hate the many MR cars in their stock form too, even with the new physics. Mostly I think because they don't fit my driving style so I end up with constant snap oversteer particularly under braking, fortunately it can be tuned out for the most part and there are still some that run just fine stock for me.
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The Alfa Romeo TZ3 Stradale '11 at the Morning Wood event was a beast, but I was really liking that car. The tire blazing, yet getting up outa here launch was pretty impressive as well.
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I haven't played GT6 yet, but this issue with tire squeal already sounds like it could be annoying.
FYI for some guys that haven't (IRL) been able to experience sliding a car around on high performance tires: high performance tires don't squeal until you've really, REALLY made a mistake. So if in the game Sport or Race tires are squealing at the slightest bit of under or over steer that's disappointing, because that's not realistic at all.
(before someone comments on my BRZ's tires squealing in the Youtube video I posted - those tires aren't high performance ;D )
The RS3's on my Miata squeal like the dickens but that's because I'm usually pushing the car to the limit and it's sliding on all four wheels. Sounds a lot like you hear in GT6. I realize as you get to softer compounds, this happens less. But the RS3 is a pretty dang soft tire.
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I haven't played GT6 yet, but this issue with tire squeal already sounds like it could be annoying.
FYI for some guys that haven't (IRL) been able to experience sliding a car around on high performance tires: high performance tires don't squeal until you've really, REALLY made a mistake. So if in the game Sport or Race tires are squealing at the slightest bit of under or over steer that's disappointing, because that's not realistic at all.
(before someone comments on my BRZ's tires squealing in the Youtube video I posted - those tires aren't high performance ;D )
There is also an element of track surface that plays into the sound heard too, I've been on a surface where tire squeal was nearly that loud RL, the math I had not done when I last posted was in that granted yes, we had the windows down but we were only rolling at 5 mph when not one but both trucks in our work crew cut loose ample squealage comparable to what we hear in GT6. That parking lot is paved with a different compound than any other parking lot or road I've been on not sure if it's true tarmac or mcadem but it's not the asphalt we are accustomed to. When the foreman started out of the parking lot and squealed I was all "Damn Leon, in a hurry to get to work are we?" at that time the person I was carpooling with says "it's not Leon, it's the parking lot, watch" he lets the truck idle out of the spot and sure enough chirp, chirp, chirp and it was at this point I noticed it was coming from the front and not the back. I hadn't really stopped to think about it until last night. Noise is generated through the conversion of kinetic energy to sound waves, Tire noise effects are amplified at higher operating speeds...It's elementary school physics really and I had forgotten about that day in the parking lot until last night. Stopping to think about those two things in the same thought, the tire noise actually makes sense to me now and seems appropriate.
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Or put another way ... pull up a video of local autocross action. You'll hear a LOT of tire squeal.
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Feldynn, I can't drive the MR cars to save my life. I've modified a couple of them and the adjustable suspension has sometimes helped and sometimes not. Not really sure what I'm going to do in the future, because I constantly spin out.
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Feldynn, I can't drive the MR cars to save my life. I've modified a couple of them and the adjustable suspension has sometimes helped and sometimes not. Not really sure what I'm going to do in the future, because I constantly spin out.
With the MR cars, I've found that modifying the brake bias and adding downforce via a wing and the flat bottom that I can fix some of the tail happy nature of the beast. I have an Acura NSX that drives really nice now. Also, when driving the MR cars, I change the way I'm driving a bit. I get the braking done earlier. That might help.
After you complete the International A Mission Races, the game will give you the RM Elise. And it is super fast and corners like crazy without all the tail spin. So if you need an MR car after that, well that's a good choice. Also works as a good car for the Euro series.
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Brake bias definitely helps some, usually I'll adjust it so it's heavy on the front and light on the back (maybe a 5 / 2 split or so). That and also the LSD tend to be my goto adjustments, increasing the Braking number seems to really help with the lift off oversteer problems I have too (as can some suspension tuning). Funny thing is some cars like the Countach and Esprit I have no problems with at all and can drive reasonably well without any adjustment heh.
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I'm learning I also suck with carts.
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Also, the reverse thing is killing me. In the past, I'd throw the car into the reverse and it would shift back to 1rd automatically...now it just stays in reverse. I'm constantly putting myself even farther behind after a spin.
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Also, the reverse thing is killing me. In the past, I'd throw the car into the reverse and it would shift back to 1rd automatically...now it just stays in reverse. I'm constantly putting myself even farther behind after a spin.
I hear you Rick, >:( that's my biggest concern. Yes the tire noise is to loud but more realistic. As for MR cars I strip them then add weight, move the weight forward 50/50 then balance the suspension and set the brakes even. Custom suspension NO Rear toe ( where did they come up with +20 rear toe, not in the real world) more camber in the rear than the front. Works for me. ;)
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Also, the reverse thing is killing me. In the past, I'd throw the car into the reverse and it would shift back to 1rd automatically...now it just stays in reverse. I'm constantly putting myself even farther behind after a spin.
:stoopid: :stoopid:
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Also, the reverse thing is killing me. In the past, I'd throw the car into the reverse and it would shift back to 1rd automatically...now it just stays in reverse. I'm constantly putting myself even farther behind after a spin.
:stoopid: :stoopid:
:stoopid: :stoopid: :stoopid:
The first time it happened I thought my wheel had broke. That is VERY annoying.
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I haven't played GT6 yet, but this issue with tire squeal already sounds like it could be annoying.
FYI for some guys that haven't (IRL) been able to experience sliding a car around on high performance tires: high performance tires don't squeal until you've really, REALLY made a mistake. So if in the game Sport or Race tires are squealing at the slightest bit of under or over steer that's disappointing, because that's not realistic at all.
(before someone comments on my BRZ's tires squealing in the Youtube video I posted - those tires aren't high performance ;D )
The RS3's on my Miata squeal like the dickens but that's because I'm usually pushing the car to the limit and it's sliding on all four wheels. Sounds a lot like you hear in GT6. I realize as you get to softer compounds, this happens less. But the RS3 is a pretty dang soft tire.
Interesting. My Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Specs were very quiet, and that tire is quite similar to the RS3. I actually considered the RS3s but their shallow tread depth was a no go for me (since i use the tires for DD as well).
The reverse thing is annoying! Hopefully we'll adjust.
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Had a quick second to post; wanted to give my 2 cents.
First, I was out of town over the weekend so I didn't pick the game up until Sunday. I've been on it whenever Velocity's been asleep and/or I've been done with work/family/house stuff. Oh, and was at the Caps game last night. That said I've been a busy beaver.
Tire noise - someone mentioned that it varies from tire to tire and I totally back this up. I started with the 15rd anniversary Split Window (my 1nd all time favorite) and noticed the front end dive and general looseness 7Cthe car. Actually I noticed what Rick started with - all the cars seem to be a bit more loose. I like it. The comfort tires squeal if I look at them. Sport softs . . . not so much.
Where I differ is on the front tires biting/plowing and the lack of rear wheel spin. Once I corrected my driving habits (I sometimes drive a car like I ride my bikes - late braking) to match 4 wheels and a more realistic approach I didn't have *as much* dive with the Sting Ray (C 2th), and I had no issues at all with the Stingray (C7st). I'm not a drifter so I didn't have much luck with a controlled tail slide . . . more of a power slide. Once I got into the Supercar festival I did use the Viper and it honestly impressed me. I expected it to be more unwieldy and it stayed planted with tons of power to spare. Granted the Enzo that was on my tail was walking me down on the straights, but that's what happens. When I took the Stingray (C7st) to Laguna I found the same thing - I love that freaking car.
On the mid-engine thing - Yes, I obsess. The only car I've bought is my 1nd-A all time favorite. Ferrari 288 GTO. Small aside - there's an error in this car. The dashboard Tach is mis-calibrated. I suspect someone missed a decimal point because it barely moves, but moves with the engine speed. You can't get that needle much past 1.
BOT - I find the Middies very different to drive depending on the car. I don't have an NSX but have tried the following with different results:
GTO: Needs to be managed and you have to pay attention, but it feels well balanced.
Elise: On the test around the turn I found that car easier for me to control than it was in GT5. It spins like a top so I could go into the apex late and the car would just rotate. Pour on the speed and you're good to go.
Stratos: Could. Not. Make. A. Turn. That booty was trying to get away from me by the first slight turn at Rome! Fast in a straight line but I'll have to come back to that one.
Huyara (or however you spell it): Holy Carp that's an awesome, powerful, balanced machine.
GT40 MK I: Low and planted, but I have to keep that tail in line. But there's not too much power back there vs. the "modern" Ford GT.
My early take is that this version is leaps ahead of where GT5 was/is. Not perfect but few things are. I expect to average 4 hours of sleep per night for a couple-few months.
Oh, and I'm glad the licenses are required again.
Also also, MOON BUGGY! How often can you do a barrel roll in a car at 15 mph?
Hope to be out there with you soon, but I have to get back to work.
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Drove a stock 2006 S2000 last night (in GT), and I must say the handling of it in GT6 is way WAY better than how it was portrayed in GT5. Much less tail happy and driveable (though not to say it wouldn't bite you in the ass if you did something stupid). In my opinion the handling is considerably closer to real life. However, I'm puzzled by their inaccuracies in other areas. 1) the redline is 500rpm too high (FC22 has a hard fuel cut at 8100rpm in real life). 2) the gear ratios are also way off (and would be even if the redline wasn't overly high); they are too short.
Furthermore, why can't Gran Turismo properly (and by properly I mean...at all) model the sound of VTEC engagement!??!?!? >:( It's an easy thing to do, and would be applicable for over 25 Honda/Acura models. WTF Kaz.
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I finally got around to buying the same car in the game that I've got in the garage. After changing the oil, the horsepower and torque figures were a bit lower than my car, but negligible. I took it out for one of the International B series events.
I can't remember if the car came with sports hard or sports soft tires, but I believe it was sports soft. In driving a thousand miles over the past few days it seems the comfort tires are simply shit and the sports tires are more realistic.
The car in the game handled well-ish, but still not quite as good as the car in real life. That said, it was still fairly close. In real life I can typically take an on ramp at about 50-100% more than the posted speed limit, at which point I run out of balls because wrecking my car isn't something I'm interested in doing. In the game, the car still has a slight push at speeds that were surprisingly low for the particularly turns I was taking. However, given that they have 1200 cars and 70 track layouts to match together, on top of 9 or whatever different tire compounds, perfection is really asking too much.
Where they missed the mark the most is with the power oversteer, it's non-existent even in the 2000 Z06. I was racing the long course at Brands Hatch and not once can I remember burying the throttle too much. That's not realistic. On the real car, with all aids turned off, it's very tail happy. Turning at a normal intersection in third gear and applying anything approaching half throttle brings the rear end out. In the game, coming out of a tight turn close to a hairpin and dropping the hammer resulted in nothing embarrassing.
Again, I think asking a company to be able to match closely the results of 1200 cars on 70 tracks on 9 different tire compounds is setting them up for failure. So, I'm going to try to stop complaining about the physics of the game as I feel it's impossible to get every car right for every situation.
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I finally got around to buying the same car in the game that I've got in the garage. After changing the oil, the horsepower and torque figures were a bit lower than my car, but negligible. I took it out for one of the International B series events.
Great post. If you look at who they've partnered with, it's clear they've been working on the tire model and the suspension model mostly. Maybe in the next version they will spend some time modeling the stuff under the hood a bit better (torque steer, clutch improvements, engine sounds, etc).
MX
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To clarify my stance a little, I really like the new tire sounds. Massive improvement compared to GT5. Probably some of the best tire sounds I've heard and I too like that the sound changes the harder you drive them.
My complaint is the volume of them. They're just too damn loud in my opinion. Knock the overall volume down by 20% or so and they'd be excellent.
making my way through this thread catching up...
I have posited this explanation for the tire noises on the other forum... In the end I agree it's probably a little too loud, but not much.
Consider this: That when you take a car out and bang on it like we do in this game, you'd have mods done to your car or a perspective within the car that changes your overall impression of the mix of sounds.
If you owned a Fit in real life, for instance, you would never take it to the track. There is no comparison for the game, as a result.
If you are driving from the interior view, you don't hear the tires as much, and some racers have commented taht the mix from that perspective is spot on, even comparing racing videos and sports broadcasts showing the similarities. So, consider that the view a lot of us uses the majority of the time (bumper) would naturally cause you to hear a different mix of tires vs engine, being that the engine is covered by a hood, and the tires are direct to the recording device or your ears (imagine actually sitting on the hood lying down face forward with a controller in your hand... no really, it'll bring a smile to your face :) )
If you took any daily driver to the track, you'd probably have a tire better than the "Comfort" variety in GT6, thereby giving you more grip and less of a need to push the tire to its limit where it is the loudest.
If you owned a civic IRL and took it to the track, first you probably wouldn't push it this hard, hence never end up hearing noises like these ones. Second, if that civic was taken to the track it would probably have an intake, a loud fart can exhaust, and possibly a turbo and other things that would cause you to hear those sound elements over the tires screeching.
So, in the end I still think it's a little too loud, but not much, when you consider for a moment that taking real tires and beating on them like this really does make a FUCKING LOUD noise that alerts drivers and cops from far and wide that there is a "crazy driver" nearby :D
In my stock car, pushing the tires makes it the loudest aspect of the noise profile, even from within the car.
just my .02
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I've noticed that in GT6 the Comfort tires definitely have the most pronounced (read obnoxiously loud) squealing but Sports and Racing are both less voluminous and my more bearable
Exactly my experience too... I feel like the enormous squeal from the comforts is just representative of the fact that they weren't really made for what we're doing to them.
Kind of like a girl screaming rape or something! (not that I know what that sounds like)
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Rick, have you tried staggering tire compounds to produce a more realistically accurate sensation for the power oversteer? I seem to remember Gar or someone posting on the PSN forum quite a while back about how the tires in GT5 provided more realistic handling when you had good tires at the front and less good ones at the back, I wonder if that still holds true for GT6 and say having Sports Soft on the front and Sports Hard on the rear might give a more accurate feeling?
Ex, something else I've been thinking about regarding the tire squeal noise is that it might not actually be the noise of the tires that's the problem and more so PD's audio balancing mechanics. I've been getting some of the same old sound glitches we had in GT5 like where as you get close to another car your engine sound fades out, running some career races at Rome last night I also found that different road texture noise was causing the same issue. Switching from asphalt to cobbles meant a different road noise was being used and suddenly the engine sound was fading out, coming off cobbles and magically the engine started getting louder again so I wonder what we're experiencing is actually some sort of audio playback bug.
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no doubt, they have some sound mixing, and glitching issues to fix, so there's a good chance they'll re-balance some things when that work is done.
And yes, it was Gar who made the comments about using different tire compounds to achieve a realistic handling profile.
He talked about the difference between lateral grip vs forward grip.
Haven't seen him post in a while... said his ps3 died. Hopefully someoen got him a new one :) It would be nice to see if he thinks any of his observations turned out to be addressed in "6".
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Rick, have you tried staggering tire compounds to produce a more realistically accurate sensation for the power oversteer? I seem to remember Gar or someone posting on the PSN forum quite a while back about how the tires in GT5 provided more realistic handling when you had good tires at the front and less good ones at the back, I wonder if that still holds true for GT6 and say having Sports Soft on the front and Sports Hard on the rear might give a more accurate feeling?
Ex, something else I've been thinking about regarding the tire squeal noise is that it might not actually be the noise of the tires that's the problem and more so PD's audio balancing mechanics. I've been getting some of the same old sound glitches we had in GT5 like where as you get close to another car your engine sound fades out, running some career races at Rome last night I also found that different road texture noise was causing the same issue. Switching from asphalt to cobbles meant a different road noise was being used and suddenly the engine sound was fading out, coming off cobbles and magically the engine started getting louder again so I wonder what we're experiencing is actually some sort of audio playback bug.
That's probably not a bad idea, Feldynn. The tires on my real car are actually staggered with 265s up front and 295s in the rear. That might just do the trick.
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Regarding tire squeal, this isn't my best video, but very quickly you can hear the tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaR0tr-TEOk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaR0tr-TEOk)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaR0tr-TEOk
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I finally got around to buying the same car in the game that I've got in the garage. After changing the oil, the horsepower and torque figures were a bit lower than my car, but negligible. I took it out for one of the International B series events.
I can't remember if the car came with sports hard or sports soft tires, but I believe it was sports soft. In driving a thousand miles over the past few days it seems the comfort tires are simply shit and the sports tires are more realistic.
The car in the game handled well-ish, but still not quite as good as the car in real life. That said, it was still fairly close. In real life I can typically take an on ramp at about 50-100% more than the posted speed limit, at which point I run out of balls because wrecking my car isn't something I'm interested in doing. In the game, the car still has a slight push at speeds that were surprisingly low for the particularly turns I was taking. However, given that they have 1200 cars and 70 track layouts to match together, on top of 9 or whatever different tire compounds, perfection is really asking too much.
Where they missed the mark the most is with the power oversteer, it's non-existent even in the 2000 Z06. I was racing the long course at Brands Hatch and not once can I remember burying the throttle too much. That's not realistic. On the real car, with all aids turned off, it's very tail happy. Turning at a normal intersection in third gear and applying anything approaching half throttle brings the rear end out. In the game, coming out of a tight turn close to a hairpin and dropping the hammer resulted in nothing embarrassing.
Again, I think asking a company to be able to match closely the results of 1200 cars on 70 tracks on 9 different tire compounds is setting them up for failure. So, I'm going to try to stop complaining about the physics of the game as I feel it's impossible to get every car right for every situation.
Somehow I am under the impression you did not put mid to low shelf tires from wall mart on the car IRL......That said I'm under the impression this was one of those goes without saying things
Did you remove the rear toe that PD cramms into everything specifically to reduce that effect for "playability"?
I did with the 78 TA, With the rest of the settings matched up to what PD says are factory and the rear toe reduced the car behaves verymuch like my friends 81 TA did, including but nit limited to stomping embarrassment...or what we called fun back then
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that's a good point about the toe... I thought about mentioning it, but then some brain cells died...
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Drove a stock 2006 S2000 last night (in GT), and I must say the handling of it in GT6 is way WAY better than how it was portrayed in GT5. Much less tail happy and driveable (though not to say it wouldn't bite you in the ass if you did something stupid). In my opinion the handling is considerably closer to real life. However, I'm puzzled by their inaccuracies in other areas. 1) the redline is 500rpm too high (FC22 has a hard fuel cut at 8100rpm in real life). 2) the gear ratios are also way off (and would be even if the redline wasn't overly high); they are too short.
Furthermore, why can't Gran Turismo properly (and by properly I mean...at all) model the sound of VTEC engagement!??!?!? >:( It's an easy thing to do, and would be applicable for over 25 Honda/Acura models. WTF Kaz.
a thought... is the one in GT a JDM model that might have some small differences like the ones you've noted? The gear ratios are something that are never right on my Evo comparisons, because all of them in-game are 6speeds where the US market had mostly 5speeds... (which yes it does suck on the highway for that reason, unless you like a lot of noise and wasting gas)
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I finally got around to buying the same car in the game that I've got in the garage. After changing the oil, the horsepower and torque figures were a bit lower than my car, but negligible. I took it out for one of the International B series events.
I can't remember if the car came with sports hard or sports soft tires, but I believe it was sports soft. In driving a thousand miles over the past few days it seems the comfort tires are simply shit and the sports tires are more realistic.
The car in the game handled well-ish, but still not quite as good as the car in real life. That said, it was still fairly close. In real life I can typically take an on ramp at about 50-100% more than the posted speed limit, at which point I run out of balls because wrecking my car isn't something I'm interested in doing. In the game, the car still has a slight push at speeds that were surprisingly low for the particularly turns I was taking. However, given that they have 1200 cars and 70 track layouts to match together, on top of 9 or whatever different tire compounds, perfection is really asking too much.
Where they missed the mark the most is with the power oversteer, it's non-existent even in the 2000 Z06. I was racing the long course at Brands Hatch and not once can I remember burying the throttle too much. That's not realistic. On the real car, with all aids turned off, it's very tail happy. Turning at a normal intersection in third gear and applying anything approaching half throttle brings the rear end out. In the game, coming out of a tight turn close to a hairpin and dropping the hammer resulted in nothing embarrassing.
Again, I think asking a company to be able to match closely the results of 1200 cars on 70 tracks on 9 different tire compounds is setting them up for failure. So, I'm going to try to stop complaining about the physics of the game as I feel it's impossible to get every car right for every situation.
Somehow I am under the impression you did not put mid to low shelf tires from wall mart on the car IRL......That said I'm under the impression this was one of those goes without saying things
Did you remove the rear toe that PD cramms into everything specifically to reduce that effect for "playability"?
I did with the 78 TA, With the rest of the settings matched up to what PD says are factory and the rear toe reduced the car behaves verymuch like my friends 81 TA did, including but nit limited to stomping embarrassment...or what we called fun back then
That's another good point Ronin. I've only modded one car with suspension so far. The game doesn't pay too well so far so I'm saving my dollars. But that might be an issue I need to address.
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Drove a stock 2006 S2000 last night (in GT), and I must say the handling of it in GT6 is way WAY better than how it was portrayed in GT5. Much less tail happy and driveable (though not to say it wouldn't bite you in the ass if you did something stupid). In my opinion the handling is considerably closer to real life. However, I'm puzzled by their inaccuracies in other areas. 1) the redline is 500rpm too high (FC22 has a hard fuel cut at 8100rpm in real life). 2) the gear ratios are also way off (and would be even if the redline wasn't overly high); they are too short.
Furthermore, why can't Gran Turismo properly (and by properly I mean...at all) model the sound of VTEC engagement!??!?!? >:( It's an easy thing to do, and would be applicable for over 25 Honda/Acura models. WTF Kaz.
a thought... is the one in GT a JDM model that might have some small differences like the ones you've noted? The gear ratios are something that are never right on my Evo comparisons, because all of them in-game are 6speeds where the US market had mostly 5speeds... (which yes it does suck on the highway for that reason, unless you like a lot of noise and wasting gas)
The gear ratios for the S2000 are the same, regardless of country. They are different for the AP1 and AP2, but the 2006 in the game is identical to the 2007 S2000 I owned previously. Not a bad suggestion though!
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The GT coding team has finally made me enjoy it again
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I finally got around to buying the same car in the game that I've got in the garage. After changing the oil, the horsepower and torque figures were a bit lower than my car, but negligible. I took it out for one of the International B series events.
I can't remember if the car came with sports hard or sports soft tires, but I believe it was sports soft. In driving a thousand miles over the past few days it seems the comfort tires are simply shit and the sports tires are more realistic.
The car in the game handled well-ish, but still not quite as good as the car in real life. That said, it was still fairly close. In real life I can typically take an on ramp at about 50-100% more than the posted speed limit, at which point I run out of balls because wrecking my car isn't something I'm interested in doing. In the game, the car still has a slight push at speeds that were surprisingly low for the particularly turns I was taking. However, given that they have 1200 cars and 70 track layouts to match together, on top of 9 or whatever different tire compounds, perfection is really asking too much.
Where they missed the mark the most is with the power oversteer, it's non-existent even in the 2000 Z06. I was racing the long course at Brands Hatch and not once can I remember burying the throttle too much. That's not realistic. On the real car, with all aids turned off, it's very tail happy. Turning at a normal intersection in third gear and applying anything approaching half throttle brings the rear end out. In the game, coming out of a tight turn close to a hairpin and dropping the hammer resulted in nothing embarrassing.
Again, I think asking a company to be able to match closely the results of 1200 cars on 70 tracks on 9 different tire compounds is setting them up for failure. So, I'm going to try to stop complaining about the physics of the game as I feel it's impossible to get every car right for every situation.
Somehow I am under the impression you did not put mid to low shelf tires from wall mart on the car IRL......That said I'm under the impression this was one of those goes without saying things
Did you remove the rear toe that PD cramms into everything specifically to reduce that effect for "playability"?
I did with the 78 TA, With the rest of the settings matched up to what PD says are factory and the rear toe reduced the car behaves verymuch like my friends 81 TA did, including but nit limited to stomping embarrassment...or what we called fun back then
That's another good point Ronin. I've only modded one car with suspension so far. The game doesn't pay too well so far so I'm saving my dollars. But that might be an issue I need to address.
Ok, I just bought an 04 Z06 and it was behaving amazingly stupid for me when ever I would hammer down on it in a corner on Sport Soft tires....got me thinking about something. Something we all do instinctively on GT is get rid of that damn traction control, suffice it to say...I forgot to turn off my TC after buying the car and taking it out for a bone stock grinding session at Laguna Seca. Now I'm suddenly reminded of something my little brother was telling me. He was bitching about how he could not turn off the TC on his police cruiser, he could turn it down but not off completely. With a car like a Corvette it would make sense if Chevrolet did not allow general consumers to completely disable the traction control system. Perhaps trying the car again with TCS on might bring out that feel you know?
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The C5 Z06 has a variety of settings involving traction control and what they call active handling. Traction control prevents the rear tires from turning into smoke and active handling helps keep the butt in the back. If I remember right, you can have both turned on, both turned off, or TC off and active handling on. I typically drive with traction control turned off and active handling turned on.
Even in that mode, you can get the back end to slide around a bit, but not so much that you eat some tree or guard rail. More or less it gives you the ability to play, but not have to worry about wasting $50K.
The active handling has little effect on the front end grip, primarily controlling the rear end from around on you, similar to what we see in the game.
Overall, I remain confused a bit by the physics of the game. I took out the Huayra for some challenge at DRC on racing hands. The previous time I drove the car, it was with sports sorts. Being at my favorite track on racing hoards, I expected a cake walk. I couldn't have been more wrong.
The tire noise was the worst I've encountered in the game and the grip seemed worse than on sports softs. In addition, I drove a couple Lotus cars in the international B races and I can't imagine those cars were anything close to reality as I could barely complete a lap without spinning and sliding all over the track.
I decided tonight that once the I finish all the offline stuff, I'll never race most of the remaining MR car. I can control the Ford GT and I think Ferarri has some I can handle, but I'm not going to change the way I drive to suit the car. If the car doesn't work for my style, then fuck it.
Same goes for certain tracks. If I don't like them I won't visit them anymore. I enjoy racing with you guys (even though I have been around much) but game is supposed to be fun and for me tnat eliminates a lot of cars and several tracks. It's not a complaint, just no reason to race if the combo doesn't work with my style.
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So as some recall, I have great appreciation for the MR cars. The Elise, NSX, MR2, 430...some of my favorite cars to drive in "5". I don't have much seat time in MR in "6", but here's some of them.
NSX '91. I put all the body work on it - floor, wing, etc. I found it quite good.
Dino. Stock/few bolt on power mods. Another great MR. Well behaved.
MR-2 GT-S - uncontrollable animal. I don't know how to deal with it yet. May need suspension adjustment.
NSX '01. Perfect car - bone stock.
I drove the last 2 one after the other, and found them very different. I couldn't keep the MR-2 pointed in the right direction two corners in a row. In over 20 minutes at Laguna Sec a, I spun the NSX once.
I haven't tried adjustable suspension yet. This is all stock suspension.
Not all MR are created equally. Food for thought.
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I had the entire weekend to myself ... thought I would get some racing in. But for some reason, I never fired up GT6. Not sure what that means.
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One MR car that is really nice is the F430.. I recommend trying that.
But as I play this game more I think there is a problem with the handling model.
Someone else I know mentioned that the game feels "like everything is happening in slow motion". He's not talking about sense of speed, but the speed with which the car exhibits its behavior.
Cars that should feel like sleds on wheels, feel like sponges.
Overall, I like the physics but I usually have to tighten up the suspension on every car to make it feel like a car. I'm not explaining very well, but that's my best take on it so far.
I wouldn't be surprised if PD releases an update with some physics tweaks.
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They start off just sort of minor chirping and chittering if you go through corners at a sensibly slow speed but the more you turn the wheel or the more speed you try to carry through the corner the noise actually seems to change somewhat, not just the usual loud / louder / loudest kind of thing either. I may be wrong but I swear I actually hear a few different types of tire chirp / squeal noise depending on how much you stress them.
Assuming it's not just my ears being broken and wrong, I actually kind of like what I can hear though obviously not counting excessive loundness lol. And speaking of cool noises did anyone else notice the rocks hitting the floor pan noise when you run off track? I only really noticed it in the Fit RS at Willow Spring when I took the last corner a bit wide but that was anothing cool little sound to hear.
My wife asked me to race on snow, and the noise or snow hitting the floor is like water dropping. They missed it completely.
Yves
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Anyone felt the need to buy credits with real money ?
For now I feel money comes fast enough that I would not need to buy credits.
Yves
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Anyone felt the need to buy credits with real money ?
For now I feel money comes fast enough that I would not need to buy credits.
Yves
Not me. With 40 cars and 1 million credits currently in the bank, I see no need to buy credits or exploit glitches.
I had not tried the snow yet but I felt they did a pretty good job with the dirt sounds. Its very much like taking my Trans Am on a dirt road... except without all the vibrating... I did it once with my Trans Am and I'll never do it again. I'll walk first.
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I would strongly suggest boycotting the purchase of the credit packs, because that really encourages this sort of thing to become the norm. As the guy in that one video that someone posted on one of these days said, "I can't trust you (game devs) to give the game good progression AND charge for credits."
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So far I think I've brought somewhere around 64, most under 100k production cars with a handful of 100k-300k race cars, as well as doing a number of upgrades to different ones too. Between those and the prize cars (I've been trying to gold as much as possible) I've only found 3 events that will require the purchase of properly expensive cars, firstly the Historic Car race can be done with cheaper cars like the Camaro / Dodge race mod ones if you're lucky enough to not be put up against the Chap 2J or Toyota 7, then there's the Dream Car and the final event for I-A that pretty much require an LMP car to win.
At the point I'm up to now I've been using only purchased cars or won cars but not any of the anniversary cars (because I wanted to see how the game played through without them), with the exception of the Historic Car event where I got sick of the stupid 2J / Toyo 7 and used SRF with an upgraded Daytona Coupe lol. Though if I could be bothered I could have entered / exited until I got a field without those 2 cars and won with something cheap. Right now I've got the I-A set almost complete and have around 2mil credits which would be enough to buy an LMP car for the 2 events that will need it, should leave me enough to upgrade something for Like The Wind and I just won a Nascar for something.
So far I've not seen any actually need to buy any credits with realy money, even with a number of unnecessary car purchases I've had more than enough money / prize cars to complete the content. The only thing is a good number of the cars I really want to buy because I think they're cool are bordering on "prohibitively expensive" because I'm saving money for "required cars", some of the older ones are over 1mil. creds too so they'll get put onto the back burner. I'm hoping that PD will introduce some better paying Seasonals soon, maybe for Christmas or something.
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Anyone felt the need to buy credits with real money ?
For now I feel money comes fast enough that I would not need to buy credits.
Yves
Nope, nope and nope. They will never see a dime of my real money.
I've got almost 3 million credits and around 70 cars. I'm just chipping away at the events with what I have in my garage. I don't see the need of virtual money from real money.
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:stoopid: But new real world tracks, yes i would!
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I would strongly suggest boycotting the purchase of the credit packs, because that really encourages this sort of thing to become the norm. As the guy in that one video that someone posted on one of these days said, "I can't trust you (game devs) to give the game good progression AND charge for credits."
Yeah, no way in hell am I going to buy credits with real money. Not a chance.
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Regarding reverse: If you use paddle shifters get used to using them completely. As in using the left paddle to initiate reverse and right to regain first. Also, don't forget to come to a complete stop. :)
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So as some recall, I have great appreciation for the MR cars. The Elise, NSX, MR2, 430...some of my favorite cars to drive in "5". I don't have much seat time in MR in "6", but here's some of them.
NSX '91. I put all the body work on it - floor, wing, etc. I found it quite good.
Dino. Stock/few bolt on power mods. Another great MR. Well behaved.
MR-2 GT-S - uncontrollable animal. I don't know how to deal with it yet. May need suspension adjustment.
NSX '01. Perfect car - bone stock.
I drove the last 2 one after the other, and found them very different. I couldn't keep the MR-2 pointed in the right direction two corners in a row. In over 20 minutes at Laguna Sec a, I spun the NSX once.
I haven't tried adjustable suspension yet. This is all stock suspension.
Not all MR are created equally. Food for thought.
Here is an MR-2 tune if you want to give it a go.
http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/praiano-gt6-tunes-bmw-m3-csl-03-550pp-sm-tune-updated.291084/page-11#post-9092076 (http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/praiano-gt6-tunes-bmw-m3-csl-03-550pp-sm-tune-updated.291084/page-11#post-9092076)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-f_UFEsQWOW4/UrBkqD6lRvI/AAAAAAAAAMw/nI-Er-nFXiQ/s1600/toyota+mr2+g+limited+97.jpg)
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I've read a lot of the MR drive-ability issues stem from people putting aftermarket wheels on the car. Apparently PD messed up the code somehow and when aftermarket wheels are installed on cars with staggered offset (most MR cars for example) you end up with 4 front wheels. As we know front wheels are inherently skinnier and will mess up the balance of the car.
I love the way MR cars drive in 6, and haven't had the time to test this wheel upgrade theory, but if the code is fooked, it would make sense.
Let's hope that if it really is screwed up they recognize it and fix it soon!
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I've read a lot of the MR drive-ability issues stem from people putting aftermarket wheels on the car. Apparently PD messed up the code somehow and when aftermarket wheels are installed on cars with staggered offset (most MR cars for example) you end up with 4 front wheels. As we know front wheels are inherently skinnier and will mess up the balance of the car.
I love the way MR cars drive in 6, and haven't had the time to test this wheel upgrade theory, but if the code is fooked, it would make sense.
Let's hope that if it really is screwed up they recognize it and fix it soon!
Thanks for the info. :)
I know Turbo mentioned his settings were stock, maybe he did change wheels though. I see Praiano's Tune for that MR2 had some plus 2 wheels crossed out and stock listed as current.
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hmm... that makes me want to go see if any unruly cars I have are using bigger wheels...
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Thanks for the tune finding dude. I'll try that some day. The keys to that tune are probably the ride height and LSD....both are kind of extreme, I think.
I did test some more cars. I found the R8 prize car quite good on race hards,. I found the Diablo GT3 good even on sports hard tires, awesome on sport soft. Tested an NSX type R '02 and found it to be perfect....easier to control than the M4 we got. I took the Aero bits off my 91 NSX and it was still fairly drivable on sports hard tires. I should have tested an Elise.
I'm pretty sure my wheels are all stock.
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Apparently PD messed up the code somehow and when aftermarket wheels are installed on cars with staggered offset (most MR cars for example) you end up with 4 front wheels.
Yup, this is confirmed. Here is a pic I found on GTP that shows it....
(http://i.imgur.com/e8hBgxw.jpg)
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Fuck do I sit on what I have purchased already and hope that PD bothers to fix this "soon" or do I go back and redo everything. Fuck!
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Fuck do I sit on what I have purchased already and hope that PD bothers to fix this "soon" or do I go back and redo everything. Fuck!
I think I'm missing something. :-\
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Fuck do I sit on what I have purchased already and hope that PD bothers to fix this "soon" or do I go back and redo everything. Fuck!
I think I'm missing something. :-\
I have a hundred cars that have already had the standard oil change, areo, wheels and paint done. Which means with them not getteing the stagger right on the aftermarket wheels means that I have many cars to go back through and put stock wheels on if PD is not quick to fix this issue with aftermarket wheels.
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Fuck do I sit on what I have purchased already and hope that PD bothers to fix this "soon" or do I go back and redo everything. Fuck!
I think I'm missing something. :-\
I have a hundred cars that have already had the standard oil change, areo, wheels and paint done. Which means with them not getteing the stagger right on the aftermarket wheels means that I have many cars to go back through and put stock wheels on if PD is not quick to fix this issue with aftermarket wheels.
I get it. That really sucks.
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That's one reason I'm not getting wheels now or adjustable suspension - or at least not adjusting suspension settings.
Tough one baked...it's probably most relevant on high end cars or pure performance cars...those with staggered wheels stock.
(You may not have been soliciting feedback, but there's my thought)
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Fuck do I sit on what I have purchased already and hope that PD bothers to fix this "soon" or do I go back and redo everything. Fuck!
I think I'm missing something. :-\
I have a hundred cars that have already had the standard oil change, areo, wheels and paint done. Which means with them not getteing the stagger right on the aftermarket wheels means that I have many cars to go back through and put stock wheels on if PD is not quick to fix this issue with aftermarket wheels.
One option you can try (I haven't tested this yet) if you want to keep your aftermarket wheels is to stagger the tire compound by keeping a softer tire in the rear vs. the front. I'm going to try that Clark Grizzwald supercar (the Cizeta?) at the IA MR Trial Mountain race with CS on the front and SH on the rear. The car still has factory suspension so we'll see what happens. ;D
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I've read a lot of the MR drive-ability issues stem from people putting aftermarket wheels on the car. Apparently PD messed up the code somehow and when aftermarket wheels are installed on cars with staggered offset (most MR cars for example) you end up with 4 front wheels. As we know front wheels are inherently skinnier and will mess up the balance of the car.
I love the way MR cars drive in 6, and haven't had the time to test this wheel upgrade theory, but if the code is fooked, it would make sense.
Let's hope that if it really is screwed up they recognize it and fix it soon!
Apparently this also holds true for Rear engine Rear drive cars as well, I have some bike on the back of my BTR.
Also, also.....When I bought my lambo on day one I opted not to change the rims because you could actually see it that in the rim selection preview the rear rims were extremely shallow, at least in the rim it self. I didn't expect that effect to be literal, but never the less I really liked the natural deep wall look to the lambo rear rims so I kept them. Subsequently with the Lambo being the only Mid Engine I actually drive I found it to be a dream and could not for the life of me understand what everyone was talking about MR's being fucked up, I get it now.
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I have not read every thing but, I discovered while playing around that when using the test drive option in the garage you have to go into the course settings after picking a track and change the grip from low to real. If I'm not the only one that's missed this it could have an impact on some of the real world vs. virtual comparisons. :-\
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I never did try that tune Dude. I decided to try it on my own. I really only messed with three settings: Ride Height, Spring Rate, Stabilizer
(MR-2 GT-S '97, Stock power/weight, sports hard tires)
Ride height stock was 130 f/r, default adjustable was 115 f/r. It handled slightly better with adjustable. Lowering the car to 90 f/r helped a lot, but it still had nasty lift off behaviour. I tried staggering ride height, but anything I tried made it worse.
I think I stuck with 90 f/r.
Spring rate stock was around 2.4/3.6 f/r. This was also default for adjustable suspension. Following what I 'knew' from GT5, I stiffened the rear springs, which made it worse. I tried multiple settings for springs with somewhat consistent results. It all led to stiffer front springs reducing lift off oversteer.
Eventually I stuck with 3.75 f/r.
I made no progress whatsoever with the stabilizer. Maybe I was too impatient because of my good results with the other two settings, but I didn't feel like fussing with it too long.
I haven't applied my new theory on other cars, but I hope what I learned here has consistent application. I have no idea how it compared to suspension tuning IRL.
It does seem rather different from GT5. Opposite results from spring rate, no good results from staggered ride height.
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I'm getting the same sort of response from GT6 as you guys.
I remember in the first tutorial event in that FWD car (forget which), I started giggling at after I went around the first corner. You could see and feel the body roll, and most of the weight go on the outside tires. You get a sensation of inside-rear wheel lift, and the car rotates, then you power out of the corner, trying to line it up so that the understeer puts you on the rumble strip. I thought they nailed it.
Then I got to driving other cars, and it seems like hit and miss. I found the S2000 handled beautifully, as with most FR cars. I ended up buying and fully-modding what was my favourite car in GT5, the NSX-R. The thing was absolutely uncontrollable. You have to be very delicate with the steering in order to keep your ass where it should be. But after a while, you start to learn the quirks of each car, and can use them fully. This gives you a sense of reward that I think is new to GT (aside from the *ahem* Yellowbird).
As far as realism, I can't really say, since I've only driven my DD Ford Focus on a track. The low horsepower/chuckable FWD cars seem to handle pretty close to what my car feels like on the track. Some of the effectiveness of the brakes on certain cars seem pretty outrageous. I know my early model Elise race car stops on what seems like a couple metres from 200 km/h.
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Neptune! Where have you been? :o
As for stabilizers, I have yet to see a tutorial about them that a layman can understand thoroughly enough to put into practice in GT. Aside from the in-game tutorial (make the top number smaller than the lower number), I have no idea how they work at controlling handling issues.