SupaTunaGT
PC Sims & Other Games => Assetto Corsa => Topic started by: Brindle on March 08, 2015, 08:33:36 AM
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Figured we need a spot to discuss settings and options for FFB. I've been hesitant in trying the stuff Ex posted about, as it sounded complicated, but nutted up and tried it.
I still need to test what I found, bu the wheelchecker is great at checking linearity of your wheel. Surprisingly and reaffirmed by others, the G25 has a great linearity in the FFB system. I will post my charts later and show what I mean. I think this could help immensly to get the proper feel from our wheels.
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Here are a few things I found over the weekend, which may help some newbies out...
Force Feedback (FFB) calibration (http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/calibrating-your-force-feedback-wheel-using-wheelcheck-and-ffbclip.14319/): I skipped the linearity test because it was very involved, and I feel like my wheel is very linear already.
I hope this helps others! (thanks to those original authors, of course)
Forgot to thanks Ex "Thank You", as I hadn't read that thread in a while and the wheelchecker was new to me (great tool btw). Ex, you'd be surprised as to how nonlinear some of the wheels are. Fanatec seeming to be the worst off and G25 being the best off. I believe it to be very useful as from what I've seen in that thread, most, if not all wheels need less than 100% in their respective wheel software.
Here are my results for 95-105%.
(http://i.imgur.com/OiMh1nw.png)
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Ex wrote...
You'er welcome!
I admit, that I actually got lost in some of the particulars of doing that linearity test and quit about half way through.
Oh, I think it was that making a chart like that is significantly more difficult in Open Office rather than Excel. I might do this on my work computer to get at the Excel stuff.
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Ex wrote...
What I suggest is that we post out settings for our wheels and game in this thread, and then if we find that we don't like a setting or change it, go back to the post and edit it:
Here's what I'm using right now: (I like it but with so many things, I will probably change when I get wiser about something)
Changed after doing Wheelcheck the right way...
Wheel: Thrustmaster T300RS
Driver Settings:
Rotation/Angle: 900deg
Gain: 70%
Other Settings: Everything 100%
Game:
Gain: 90% (adjust a few % up/down for each car's setup)
Filter: 0
Damping: 0
Min Force: 6
Kerb Effects: 33
Road Effects: 68
Sip Effects: 10
(FYI, I have road fx turned up because this wheel actually gives a little vibration that moves through Baked's PVC rig down to the foot platform and through the pedals, AND vibrates through the seat too! It's a nice bit of emmersion, like butt-kicker, only more of a butt-tickler :D )
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Open office is tricky.
Double click on the .csv file. In the screen that pops up, under "separator options", make sure "separated by" is ticked, then only "comma" and "space" have a check mark. That will import the file properly for making the chart.
Also, for some reason, force is the "x" data range and deltaX is "y" range. Use X,Y scattered as chart type.
Good luck. :)
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Finished mine last night and I can't believe how much better it is now. I strongly recommend doing this. :)
Wheel: Logitech G25
Profiler Settings:
Overall Effect: 95%
Everything else 0%
In Game:
Gain: 96%
Filter: 0
Damping: 0
Min Force: 6
Kerb Effects: 40
Road Effects: 20
Sip Effects: 0
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Ex wrote...
Open office is tricky.
Double click on the .csv file. In the screen that pops up, under "separator options", make sure "separated by" is ticked, then only "comma" and "space" have a check mark. That will import the file properly for making the chart.
Also, for some reason, force is the "x" data range and deltaX is "y" range. Use X,Y scattered as chart type.
Good luck. :)
this is now pissing me off... I know how to make charts. I do it for a living, but for some reason, I cannot get Excel or Open Office Calc to do what you and the other thread describes.
There is no point at which either chart wizard asks me what I want to put as axis columns. I also don't understand how to scale the FOrce so that it is at 100 max as a reference.
IF you can post some screens it might be helpful, thanks.
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After importing .csv, I assume your deleting the columns between "force" and "deltaXdiag"? If not, that's step 2. Next click on the "force" cell. Now select chart and choose type "x,y scatter".
(http://i.stack.imgur.com/W2956.png)
Skip to number 3 "data series" and remove an the "force" data series. It should now be blank. Click add and in the right box, you should see name, x-values, y-values. Put "force" (you should rename cell to FFB %) for the name "data range", use "force" column (cell A2-A52) as x-value and "deltaXdiag" column (cell B2-B52) as y- value.
(http://www.comfsm.fm/~dleeling/statistics/s81/ooo2404.png)
Now click finish and it should be done.
Don't worry about scaling, just leave it as is.
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Ex wrote...
Dittos on that Thank you back to you, Brindle.
What you typed helped, even if it wasn't still 100% (my fault) I eventually abandoned Open Office and went to Excel over on the work machine...
The key to what you typed, that no one else explained previously, is that you do not need to define the data points themselves, ONLY the axes. I work in more sophisticated programs than Excel, so doing these operations there is just so foreign. I hate that Excel, for instance, won't let you move where your fucking columns are. I should just be able to drag A over between B and C, and have it be okay with that. Fucktards...
Onto the actual info of this post ;)
I'm going to post my spreadsheet with chart already formatted here so other T300RS users may just use it as a way to input their specific data from the WheelCheck app, or just trust that their wheel is exactly like mine and steal the settings based on my findings...
But before I do that, I need to find some findings :)
Please help me interpret these two charts. I went ahead and plotted data for 100% gain down to 50% gain, because the trend was towards more linearity.
(You'll notice that the Thrustmaster curve is much more pronounced than your Fanatec wheel's. Yours is by leaps and bounds, more linear by nature, so it appears.)
It may look like 50% is the most linear overall (Chart A), but what is going on around the 0-10% range? See (Chart B)
(A)
(http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj531/ex-xboxfan/GainChart_Screenshot_zps60aa739f.png) (http://s1266.photobucket.com/user/ex-xboxfan/media/GainChart_Screenshot_zps60aa739f.png.html)
Is this erratic behavior near the zero deg and force area anything to be concerned about, and based on its existence, what do you think it is suggesting as a setting for Min Force in the game?
I suppose, the erratic behavior could be smoothed out if I did several runs per % Gain. Some of those data points could just be random outliers. However, the trend visually does appear to be that the lower % Gain goes, the more erratic at lower % Force. Perhaps it suggests that the THrustmaster is not very good at doing minute forces as it is at doing strong sustained forces?
(I'd be curious to see what your Fanatec wheel looks like when you reduce % Gain more than just 15%, not that you have to do it on my account)
(B)
(http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj531/ex-xboxfan/GainChart_Screenshot_Zoomed_zpsd0e4a27c.png) (http://s1266.photobucket.com/user/ex-xboxfan/media/GainChart_Screenshot_Zoomed_zpsd0e4a27c.png.html)
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REK wrote...
T500RS
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk285/deadonat500yards/T500FFB_zps3i9uh4hy.png) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/deadonat500yards/media/T500FFB_zps3i9uh4hy.png.html)
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Ex wrote...
weird... your shark teeth are on the opposite end of the graph ???
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Mine is not as severe, but I still have a bounce in it. For example, in my .csv file, the first 2-3 lines are 0, then it will spike depending on % between .5-1.7, then drop again to zero before starting a usual trend upwards.
It's going to be a specific wheel brand thing. Your wheel comes in nice and early, mine after yours and Rek has an even bigger dead spot. You also might try a 40% test to see if the line gets anymore linear.
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REK wrote...
weird... your shark teeth are on the opposite end of the graph ???
I reversed the throttle and clutch.
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Wiz wrote...
FFB (fart fucker brindle)
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REK wrote...
Put yours up there Wiz.
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I'm starting to mess with lower FFB seettings again, because I'm finding that I have to turn down more cars' FFB than I have to turn up. That means, to save some work fine tuning each car, I should start lower and work up, rather than start higher and work down.
I knmow, Brindle says I shouldn't have to change each car's FFB. I get that, but as I said I'm still finding lots of cars have far too much, and regular controlled high-g turns (even after I've figured out the car and track) seem to have clipping.
It may not be an issue on all wheels.
But here's what I'm doing now.
If you've done your clipping tool exercise with a "racey" car, and not a smooth road car, you'll have used too lower of a base FFB setting in most cases. If you used a smooth, comfy road car, you'll have set it too high. When you switch between these car types, you'll get too much variation in Feedback. You'll want to turn up your FFB in that softer car.
Personally, I used a softer car, like a 458, to do my FFB test (not my fault, the documentation just said "use your favorite car"), so I probably set my FFB too high, and hence why I would need to turn so many cars down.
But, as I figured out with Brindle's help, if you take away all of the clipping at the top end, you will lose sensation of the minor vibrations at the lower end of the FFB spectrum.
Here's how you get all cars balanced much more closely, without having to choose between either the min or the max.
Turn DOWN your base FFB setting in AC Options. Maybe a couple points from what you've thought is correct. (if you used a soft car to do FFB clilp tests etc.)
Turn UP your Min Force settings in AC's Options. I had mine at 8%, and I've turned up to 10%.
Adjust cars by a few points if necessary.
You'll find more cars are okay out of the box, this way, and have to adjust fewer of them.
By increasing the min force, you are getting both the information transmitted to your arms when you are pulling hard to one side on a fast corner, but also get the little vibrations and infos from the wheel in less extreme situations. The car will feel alive and like it is in your hands, the whole way around, rather than feeling good here, but not so good there.
I hope that helps. I'm not in the best "explaining things" mood, though :P
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I used the McLaren GT3 for the FFB clip tool. Also I ran some slower more consistent laps than I normally would otherwise. I notice cars vary in FFB, but I just get used to it per car, as it's usually not too strong. You know... One car ain't like the other.
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Ok boys .. any update on FFB? I'm really hoping it won't be too convoluted when the console version hits in a month. I f some global settings will work fine and not too much car by car then I'll be happy.
Also hope to get together with some pals and have a discussion about it
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I haven't heard anything yet myself, but I believe it will be no more involved than the current options, which are global. I took a pic of the FFB setting we have on PC and my guess is will likely be on console as well.
(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/a050/c11fy5i2u0a3c9w6g.jpg)
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now THAT I could live with 8) thanks for the info Brin